What whisk(e)y are we drinking? (Part 2)

Beanstalk · 25-08-2023 03:24PM

^^^sorry for the unintended rant folks totally don't bother your hole slogging through that lol.

With the increasing costs I've been looking into blends recently, so I pulled the trigger today on a Thomspon Bros 6year old blended scotch (46%) and a Cutty Sark Probition (50%) because I hear they're great value for money. I'll report back with an update! Might pull the trigger on the Red Silkie too thanks for the advice everyone.

Black Sheep · 25-08-2023 04:52PM

Integrity is increasingly considered to be a pathway for businesses and investors to increase profits, it's not a choice between having a sort of 'angel' business which is about transparency and integrity, and getting competitive returns for investors.

In investment terms, there's a swing towards ESG (environmental social governance) investing but a basic principle is that the returns for investors are as good or better than 'traditional' investment practices. As someone put it to me lately, when the returns are actually better then it passes the capitalism test all day long.

Without getting into it again in detail, because I think it's been played out a bit now, I think there are floors on what an independent distiller can charge. They'll have less money than the big boys from the start, and they'll pay more for everything, because they can't get the economies of scale and efficiencies going the way the big boys can. So there are practical considerations that put a minimum price on what they can charge for a bottle of their own product that are less favourable to smaller independents.

Then there's the question of what ceiling they can and should put on their product. I actually think fly-by-night Irish whisky companies that are overcharging are usually the ones that are selling sourced products... They're misleading and more likely to overcharge. If I consider Ferncullen, Teeling, Dingle and Drumshambo, I actually think their pricing for their own product is grand. Yes, Drumshambo and Dingle might push it out a bit, but I still think that their pricing even if ambitious and pitched towards a more premium niche is not outrageous, is it?

I can see a marketing strategy and niche for a distillery that could be based on transparency about production costs and profits. It could tie in well with green credentials. But at the end of the day you'd need that whisky to still have profit margins that were good enough that the company could continue to attract investors and expand. Otherwise you'd be caught in a bit of a catch 22, in fact, because if you made your profit margins too small on your sales, and bearing in mind your output would be relatively limited, you'd lack profits to put back into the business or attract investors, you'd never be able to increase output enough to compensate for your low profit margins and actually increase takings. How low to go is a legitimate question.

I also think that profit for owners and investors is being strawmanned a little bit here. You can have a great business idea and put in a lot of work, and I don't think it's wrong that you and your investors would then reap pretty great returns. That is emphatically not the same as price gouging. Especially if you are targeting not the value demographic at the bottom of the market - who should be buying Powers Gold Label and things like Three Swallows when on sale etc - but the segment of the market that has disposable income and isn't price sensitive.

The other thing about running a kind of ethical distillery is maybe you'd want to consider whether the public should be the beneficiaries as we're discussing. Maybe a more ethical model would be for a co-op style distillery, employee owned, where profits were shared more equitably. And be transparent about that. To be honest, I'd probably be happier to spend 55 euro on a bottle of whisky produced according to a model like that, than one that was sold at 38 euro but was like the Ryanair of independent whisky.

mikeecho · 25-08-2023 08:53PM

Tonight I'm having a blast from the past.

Canadian club and 7up , it's what got me into whiskey many years ago.

These days I never use a mixer or ice.. but it's Canadian club.. hardly high end.

Insect Overlord · 25-08-2023 09:26PM

I don't usually use mixers either, but I did finish off the Sailor's Home Caravelle with Coke and ice a while back and remember it being sublime. I had a little drop of each of their Horizon and Stormchaser again last night (sans mixers) and I'm really going to miss them when I finish them. Beautiful whiskeys.

Tonight I started with a tiny drop (maybe 10 MLS) of the Oats & Malt from Method and Madness, a similar drop of Paddy's Share, and then accidentally poured a double measure of Oban 14 y/o single malt. Didn't appreciate this one when I first opened it, but the complexity really shines through after warming up with the other two.

Electric Nitwit · 26-08-2023 07:57AM

I don't usually have mixers with whiskey, either, but I have been marketed to successfully - I do like a Jameson and Ginger when out but my real favourite was introduced to me by Tullamore DEW, cloudy apple juice! It's makes a really nice drink with any relatively simple whiskey, I highly recommend trying it

odyssey06 · 26-08-2023 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027482#Comment_121027482

There's a point of the night when a highball or a concentrated cocktail like an old fashioned hits the spot.

I remember Canadian Club and Club Rock Shandy as being a refreshing highball combo. Club & Club doesn't have same to it as Seven & Seven :)

the beer revolu · 26-08-2023 01:07PM

Yeah, I developed a taste for Segram's in my late teens/early 20s. Thought I was the thing.

Now, I find it very characterless.

Beanstalk · 01-09-2023 09:45AM

Opened a bottle of Cutty Sark Prohibition last night.

Compared to say, Jameson Black Barrel proof, the Cuttly Sark being double distilled is a little rougher round around the edges and a wee bit more volatile but jeepers for £26 I got a boatload of peppery salted caramel fudge at 50%abv and it was a very pleasant experience when thinking about value for money.

Edit: I would nearly go as far to say that the Cutty Sark is much better value for money but I'd be lying cus I got the Jameson Black barrel Proof for €24 that time in Dunnes when they made the pricing error thanks to the tip on here!

Black Sheep · 02-09-2023 03:14PM

Few quid off the Glenallachie range in CWS. Not massive, but a decent time to buy if anyone interested. A distillery on the up.

fullstop · 03-09-2023 06:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019943#Comment_121019943

Is Crolly sourced? I was up there recently and they mentioned that Silkie had produced the first (legally produced at least) Donegal whiskey in x number of years, but Crolly are going over 3 years now so I had assumed it was their own stuff.

Black Sheep · 03-09-2023 09:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064694#Comment_121064694

Silkie is all sourced, but they're up front about that.

Crolly is sourced too from what I can tell, although they really make it as hard as they can to determine that. The bottles talk about it being "finished and bottled" in Donegal, an odd turn of phrase if it was theirs. I don't think the maths works but also, if it were theirs, there'd be less of the smoke and mirrors. You'd sing it from the roof tops.

If I'm wrong on that, then they should sack their marketing and advertising people!

odyssey06 · 04-09-2023 01:29PM

Ardbeg tasting in Flowing Tide pub D1 from Celtic Whiskey Shop... might appeal to some here

https://www.celticwhiskeyshop.com/ardbeg-tasting-21st-sept-2023?search=ardbeg&_kx=vpT8nqTPsTfFB6Kx0J2izWKS8ef2SFteQPpTpdobJe4%3D.Tj3uqQ

Black Sheep · 05-09-2023 12:49PM

Now, here's some good news!

Cask Strength Powers John's Lane Announced - Potstilled

The cask strength Powers John's Lane from the Barrel Club was simply sublime... Very excited about this release.

An RRP of 90 euro makes it even more attractive.

Beanstalk · 05-09-2023 07:12PM

Oooh that would be a nice one for Christmas

the beer revolu · 06-09-2023 09:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071817#Comment_121071817

Interesting that it's about the same price as Blue Spot but considerably older. But then, age isn't everything.

kuang1 · 06-09-2023 12:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075129#Comment_121075129

Blue spot is to be repriced with the next release. Will be about €110/€115 I heard.

the beer revolu · 06-09-2023 01:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075865#Comment_121075865

Makes the pricing of JL CS even odder.

Seems odd that the same producer would sell a 12yo cs cheaper than an 8yo cs

06-09-2023 02:51PM

Just marketing by Irish distillers? Pitch Middleton on the the top, spot range on the shelf below, Aged powers stuff next then regular Powers Jameson on the bottom shelf.

Black Sheep · 06-09-2023 07:04PM

They're quite different brands, I would have assumed pricing is based off consumer data they have about what is the right price point for each.

John's Lane, and Powers in general, has always been the "surprisingly good value" horse in their stable, to some extent.

I like the Spots, and they are good whiskies, but some of the pricing reflects a buzz and "cult" status that Powers doesn't have to the same extent- certainly outside Ireland.

Finally, yes, age isn't everything and they're also quite different ranges despite some obvious similarities too.

the beer revolu · 06-09-2023 07:28PM

When they came out, I think that yellow spot and John lane ps were around the same price. Both 12yo.

Dtp1979 · 11-09-2023 11:15AM

*snip*

Mod note: No selling allowed on Boards.

Dtp1979 · 11-09-2023 11:53AM

Hi guys and girls. Seeing as Boards.ie is gone to the dogs and I’m not allowed to sell, I’m giving the below away

I’m giving away my whiskey collection. I’ve collected these over the last few years but have fallen out of love with whiskey. I’ll put a list below of what I have and I’ll write an approximate percentage of how much liquid is left in each bottle. I only want to give away in one lot. Delivery probably not the best option as most of these are cork tops. I can arrange to deliver myself or your welcome to collect depending on location.

The Nikka 12 60%

Royal Salute 21 90%

Dalwhinnie 15 50%

Hibiki suntory 60%

Arbelour 12 40%

The Irishman 60%

Floki 90%

Crown Royal 50%

Armorik single malt 90%

Starward two fold Unopened

If you want any info on any bottle please ask.

Pm me of interested.

Thanks

odyssey06 · 15-09-2023 12:05PM

Yikes... I got an email from Celtic Whiskey shop about a new limited edition Redbreast Tawny Port edition, €100, 8-10 year old spirit.

I checked the site less than 10 minutes after getting the email, SOLD OUT.

Citizen Six · 15-09-2023 05:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112811#Comment_121112811

Just a hype sell out. It'll still be available.

fmul9798 · 15-09-2023 05:36PM

Received the birdhouse email about it, checked the Midleton site via the link provided and there didn’t seem to be any way to buy it (or was already gone)

lawrencesummers · 16-09-2023 12:08PM

I bought the dingle 10 year release.

€235.

Delivered (in its transportation packaging) just the bottle, no box no nothing, not even a cardboard sleeve.

Am i being ridiculous thinking something priced at over €200 should come in a decent box or a tin at least.

Maybe its technically not a dingle release because its a founding fathers bottle and exclusive through irish malts but surely dingle have control over the packaging and would insist on a certain standard?

It looks cheap and has changed my mind a bit about dingle products

irish_goat · 16-09-2023 12:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117705#Comment_121117705

€385 if you want a 10 year Dingle in a fancy box. 😵 https://www.irishwhiskeymagazine.com/news/latest-news/dingle-10yo-single-malt-irish-whiskey/

lawrencesummers · 16-09-2023 01:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117877#Comment_121117877

Yea, thats a bit over the top, but just a bottle for a ten year old is shocking i think

kuang1 · 16-09-2023 02:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121118164#Comment_121118164

I love Dingle stuff in general, I drink some and I stash some. But I've stayed well away from the founding fathers stuff because I'm not gonna stash a bottle if it's not boxed. (that and there's close to 500 of the pheckers)

None of the founding fathers stuff was boxed akaik.

lawrencesummers · 16-09-2023 03:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121118389#Comment_121118389

Yea to be honest ive had a big change about it since getting this one.

I didnt buy any of the seasonal ones that came out even though they look good.

The 10 year with fancy packaging looks great and has done well for people on the secondary market but this one has me confused as well as unhappy.

Its called “An Cead Deich” when it isnt actually the first Ten year old.

I would like to know if it was a private owner sold through irish malts (which many distilleries dont allow) or was it a dinglendistillery release. Either way I would expect something this expensive to be better packaged, and i would expect a distillery like dingle to ensure it is presented better even if it is their release or a private one.

What whisk(e)y are we drinking? (Part 2)

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