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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭yagan


    Putin could withdraw completely and still claim victory and who in Russia could openly contradict him?

    If Russian society never evolved beyond surfdom then the belief in a strongman/tsar leader goes unchanged.

    If the tsar says mission accomplished, Ukraine is denazified then that's that. We'll just have to invest in really strong and reactive border defences, no more buffer zones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I'd be careful, there's many different versions of AMRAAMS, the version with those distances can't be currently fired from the version of F16's Ukraine will be getting (according to comments).

    Similar to the IRIS missile. Ukraine uses them, but there's 3 versions, Ukraine only received the short and medium range missiles but not the long range ones.

    As the US and Canada already announced them, I'd suspect they are going to be ground launched from NASAMS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed I heard the range of the models Ukr is getting is around 160km BUT that the radars on the F16's won't support that range, so it's expected to be around 100km. That said, the Ukrainians are very good at maximising and even manipulating systems to get more out of them (case in point, the Patriot batteries which they reconfigured).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,529 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    You get it. As numerous posters have pointed out had Darkman/ Kermit been around during the Normandy landings he'd probably have said the allies were bogged down and should just negotiate with The Germans. What Ukraine has achieved thus far without air support is incredible. I fully believe the Russians didn't think the Ukranians would breakthrough the first line of defense. Russia is going to lose this war because every day their ability to wage war is being depleted as Ukraine gets more and more advanced weaponry, it's just a matter of when Putin accepts defeat. Putin was heralded as a master strategist up to a few years ago, but i think history will judge him in a far worst light than Gorbachev for this monumental geo political blunder that has made Russia a crippled and pariah state for years to come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,393 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well funny you mention the tsar because the Russian people did take him down and the tipping point was a war. Afghanistan laid bare hidden cracks in the USSR.

    Yes the general population will probably have to swallow the lie but all dictators are kept in power by an inner circle and disasters like this can be the moment when they suddenly get lax about the bosses security.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I didn't hear what they done with the Patriot batteries, what did they do?

    Good video about what the F16's can and can't do for Ukraine. Very interesting with the HARM missiles that Ukraine already use. Because it's adapted to fire from their migs, it can only use 1 mode. When fired from an F16, it can use all 3 modes. Ukraine need to know the target location of the SAM site, when they get their F16's, they can just patrol and when the HARM missile detects a random SAM site, the pilot can then fire the missile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    They tinkered with existing parameters to (better) track the HS missiles Russia was firing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭rogber


    Ukraine has made some significant progress in recent weeks, not as much as might have been hoped or predicted by some but certainly more than it appeared a month ago. There's been a giddiness about the progress from some people here over the last week which is quite similar to this time last year, and we're back to predictions of Crimea soon being retaken, etc. I suspect this is over optimism. However it's certainly not the total stalemate it appeared a month ago and there is a sign that things are shifting significantly. I'd say let's see where things are in November when winter is setting in:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,012 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    When you don't know how to dispose of tyres and Molloy Metals only takes scrap cars minus the tyres. What do you do?

    You put them on the wings of your TU - 95 strategic bomber and hope when it's hit by a drone it takes the tyres with it in one big inferno.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They already have, but Putin won each time. Challenging Putin one by one they were easier to subdue. That's not to say that they didn't give Putin headaches, because they did, many times, especially Chechnya. To this day, there's an anti-Kadyrov movement in Chechnya. He has never been forgiven for changing sides turning from an anti-Russian to pro Russian stance. When they killed his father Akhmad ( they placed a bomb under a stand that was being built for him for him to review the Victory Day parade.) All of Chechnya rejoiced. Ramzan Kadyrov has 6 sons ( 2 adopted) and 6 daughter's and 3 wives. And to the best of my knowledge, they are all alive and well. And only for the support Putin gave Kadyrov, he'd be long gone too. As soon as Putin goes, I'd say that there will be big changes in the Federation. In each case, Putin managed to install a pro Putin government. Even today, this is very evident in Georgia, where there has resurfaced a protest movement to remove the pro Putin Prime Minister, who is seen to lean more towards Putin than European which the majority of Georgians favor. (shades of Maiden protests in 2014) For Armenia, I'm not too sure as I haven't ever been directly involved there, but I presume that its standard Putin operation, either start a separatist movement if there isn't one, or aggravate an existing one. Ensuring that the outcome is favorable to Russia.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Been far too long since we've seen the TB2's in action. One has to wonder was the recently destroyed S400 preventing them getting close to the Frontline around Kherson.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,894 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    To be fair, the posters goal is to hook people into replies like this, there's 0 follow up beyond the contrarian initial posts and no defending done on any of the points made as they fall apart immediately under the slightest scrutiny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,764 ✭✭✭storker


    With luck they'll forget to remove them before takeoff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭Perseverance The Second


    I think it's fair to say Russia's anti air systems (and possibly radars) are not up to scratch along the Kherson front.

    The S-400 is not really designed to hunt cheap $5 million USD Drones. It's designed to kill Jets, Helicopters and large turboprop planes.

    These Drones should be getting shot down either by OSA, TOR, Pantsir, Strela systems.

    Or intercepted by Jets and Helicopters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,894 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Would the goal be to confuse the trigger mechanisms if the tires are hit instead of the body directly? i.e. a rubber/metal hit instead of metal on metal. Obviously, the drones could be adapted for that or just target the other areas (most drone hits seem to be targeted damage than setting the target fully ablaze).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,393 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I was thinking it must be either that or some attempt at creating a "dazzle ship" style effect.

    Both seem pretty desperate if so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,894 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It can't be good for the airframe to be storing old tires on the wings and means they are worried about their strategic bombers being hit.

    But it does smack of soviet style pretending to do something that really does nothing (the chemical suit for radiation protection in the K-19 film always struck me as an example of this).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,096 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There is no defending needed. The reality is what it is. Not one point I've raised has been challenged because it's true. There is nothing "contrarian" about stating the actual situation.

    What some posters want is everyone to engage in fantasy hopium and ignore reality.

    If Ukraine manage to turn it around I'll be first here lauding their success. It hasn't happened yet. A few fields and villages isn't the type of success that will change the outcome of the war. Don't get me wrong, everything gained back is a plus but it's not enough so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's the pattern of getting over-excited for any Russian moves whilst downplaying anything from Ukraine.

    Only one army is moving forward at the moment, that's Ukraine. Which is incredible considering the defenses they are up against, and their lack of air-cover. Unfortunately some individuals compare it to the Kharkiv collapse, so anything that isn't comparable is celebrated as "failure".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,096 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    To be fair Ukraine set it's own standard to be judged by. It was their own chief commander who claimed they would have taken Crimea by now in their counter offensive. They talked all of this up for 6 months in advance.

    What we have had since is plenty of Ukraine propaganda/happy talk and very little to show for it on the battlefield. Yes, there are some small territorial gains but it's nowhere near enough and that's the issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    There is an undeniable disconnect between the official Russian narrative that everything is fine, their casualties are minimal and everything is going according to plan, and the fact that last September they mobilised 300k reservists, this year obtained 280k new contract soldiers (some of whom will be conscripts who sign on after, some will be Wagner and other paralimitaries who signed up and others will be specialists etc) and there is talk of a further mobilisation after the 10th September regional elections in Russia.

    While the extent of casualties can be debated, dismissed or ignored, the sheer scale of Russia's need for new manpower is the best possible evidence that they are suffering enormous casualties in Ukraine. It suggests that the 260k casualties figure is accurate, and that there are other losses due to contracts expiring (Russian stop loss being something of a legal grey area) and/or prisoners taken and soldiers deserting.

    All the while Russia is, for the most part, on the back foot and losing territory and momentum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ukraine's existence as a nation is under threat every day and night, simply keeping going requires a monumental national effort, which in itself requires high morale. The leadership have to be optimistic about their plans. They can't come out and say "hey Ukrainians, this war might last years and hundreds of thousands will die, oh and we'll probably never liberate Crimea". That's simply not a possibility in their situation.

    They have defied the odds, they have also produced tempered goals, and they've also acknowledged setbacks.

    It's not a political party making promises, it's a country fighting a war for it's survival. If they say they'll take Crimea in 6 months, good, I hope they do. But if they don't, I won't be holding it against them or celebrating it as a "failure".

    Also people support Ukraine, which is being attacked as a nation, it's a very emotive issue, ergo people share their hopes and optimism. If someone says that Ukraine will defeat Russia in 3 months, I may not agree with it privately, but I understand why they are expressing that.

    Ukraine are making gains under extreme circumstances, it's fantastic. If they weren't making gains, it'd be a setback, but I'd still understand.

    I've repeatedly noticed there not much difference between your views and those celebrating Ukraine's lack of progress online.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    A quarter of a million casualties is mental for a war in this day and age, and that's just on the Russian side. When someone described the war as WW2 with drones, they weren't lying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,012 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    We can only guess what the motivation was.

    Targeting systems on the drone. Some half arsed thought of protection from actual strikes or some bored personnel testing satellite surveillance systems of the Ukrainians.

    Or as proposed above just being told do something with whatever you have to hand but do something.

    You'd imagine now Ukrainians will arm some drones with incendiary devices now to take advantage of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,894 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    To show that what you are doing is anything other than a fishing expedition, you need to show where partition is a coming reality(improbable given F16 are coming in Winter meaning Ukraine and allies are in for the long haul) and how russia's crippled economy is somehow outproducing the west and what it supplies to Ukraine.

    That you only respond when called out on the fishing is telling.

    This has been the cheapest dismantling both in human and $ cost of a superpower in history (and this isn't to diminish what Ukraine have lost since the conflict began).

    Though, while russian collapse is inevitable if this continues, it won't happen quickly and may take the expiry of putin to occur.

    Does anyone believe the UKr. commanders when they talk about a quick end? probably not, but people understand why they're saying it, just as people understand what's happening when a poster only comes in to talk about inevitable russian victories and whenever there's telegram leaks of russian attacks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Keeps the newly mobilised busy I guess and away from the vodka.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Progress is progress. I think the supporters of Ukr defence can be patient. I'm sure you're happy to see progress too.

    Of course more rapid progress would be good to seen and to bring this whole desperate saga to an end.

    Russia to be driven out of Ukraine inc Crimea abd given such a bloody nose, that'll it realign their thinking for many decades to come.

    I'm sure most of us want this and the sooner the better, but patience is a virtue too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,393 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think a lot of people who say "I hope Ukraine win" but also are pleading for a partitioned Ukraine are being honest.

    Their motivation is not Putin or Ukraine but based on selfish goals like a return to cheap Russian gas or more availablity in Dublin hotels.



This discussion has been closed.
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