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Small claims court

  • 02-09-2023 09:06AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭


    Hi we bought a Samsung TV off Harvey Norman 18 months ago for €600 and it has stopped working, we rang the store who told us it only came with a 12 month warranty and we would be liable for any repairs. We filed a complaint with the small claims court on Friday, has anyone any experience with this type of thing? Thanks

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,760 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Sure. But how did you play it with Harvey Norman? Did you engage in email exchange and they wouldn't budge even when you put in deadlines and said you would take it to the SCC? Most companies will settle when you show them you have started a SCC case. But maybe not HN. The one time I was actually in court in the SCC, there was a HN case and HN didn't show up to defend themselves, so the claimant won

    You will most likely get a good chunk of your money back. Here is what will happen: you go to court, HN doesn't show up, you state your case, the judge, depending on how left wing they are or in what mood they are, might be annoyed with this and order HN to give you your €600 back. Or they might be a bit more level headed and order HN to give you your €600 back minus depreciation over 18 months, which could be around €200 or so

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,485 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Consumer law covers you for up to 6 years but you may have jumped the gun a bit by starting a claim. That should be a last resort. Like any retailer HN are well aware of their legal obligations and are basically chancing their arm and I'm sure there are people out there who would fall for that.

    I can't post a link at the moment but Google CCPC and you will get all the info you need.



  • Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have to ask in relation to this (not to "hijack" the OP), cause the situation I'm in is so similar.

    I bought a 1500 euro laptop off Curry's last July.

    At the end of July this year, it also stopped working.

    The warranty was just for 12 months, so I was literally days outside it.

    Would I have been eligible to dispute this?

    I just assumed that, given it was outside of warranty, I wouldn't have been?

    .......

    But as with the OP, perhaps that only applies to small repairs, not the entire thing basically stopping working entirely?

    I could have taken that to the SCC?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Yeah sorry I should have added more details, I raised it via email with HN who gave me a ticket number and said they'd get back to me within 24 hours, they never did so I rang them and spoke to them and this was when they told me about the warranty being expired and said they could send out a technician at our own expense, I told them that it wasn't acceptable to sell a tv for €600 which only lasted 18 months and if they weren't prepared to send someone out to investigate it at least then I'd have to pursue it through the small claims court. He told me to go ahead and raised it again on their system and sent me a new ticket number.

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I actually didn't even know there was consumer law on this.

    Don't know if this is the official consumer law website?

    When a good has a fault, you can decide if you want a repair or replacement. It should be provided by the business:

    • within a reasonable time
    • without significant inconvenience to you
    • free of charge

    You should act quickly and tell a business when you find a problem. Under the Statute of Limitations, you have 6 years to take a case against a business. During the first year if you have a dispute with a business they have to show that the product was not faulty when you received it.

    .........

    By that rationale, could anyone who experienced an issue with their product 6 years following its purchase, not simply bring it back in store and expect a refund or repair, without charge? (even if it's outside the 12 month warranty).

    Curry's sell "tech insurance"; if this statute is in place, would they not be obliged to tend to a faulty product, regardless of whether a buyer has bought this?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I think it's the duty of the clerk to only accept valid claims and to encourage communication between the parties to resolve the issue. So if the case is accepted it generally means the person filing the claim has no other option. (and has a good chane of winning.)

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Under law you should have a minimum 2 year warranty.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    You are covered for six years so you can still go SCC route.



  • Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    . If the fault with your product occurs within its guarantee period (normally 12 months from delivery) we will offer you a prompt repair service*

    currys.ie/terms-conditions.html

    Under "Faulty Goods".

    ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,485 ✭✭✭✭muffler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Does this story sound familiar? You buy a fancy piece of technology and spend hundreds or maybe thousands of euro on it. Then, 13 months or so down the line, it dies but when you brings it back to the shop you are told that as the warranty has expired, there is nothing that can be done. So you go away you go. Disconsolate.

    Yes.

    That does sound familiar, lol.

    Jebus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    A warranty offered by a retailer is simply the time period within which they will agree to honour their legal obligations without being made to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,760 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    A warranty offered by a retailer is meaningless. Your statutory rights are much better than most warrantees in Ireland.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah but what is the actual procedure?

    Walk into Curry's and they tell you you're outside of warranty.

    Simply inform them of your statutory rights and take it up with the SCC?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,760 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    None of the floor level staff will have a clue what you are talking about. The store managers generally do, but claim to be dumb. Take it up with them, have a robust conversation, if that doesn't go anywhere, you need to take it to email. Remain polite throughout, claim your rights

    If it isn't going anywhere, tell them you have no option but to take it to the small claims court. If that doesn't help, actually start a SCC procedure, it is free as long as it hasn't gone ahead. Show the retailer that. If that doesn't help and your case is approved by the SCC. Show the retailer that. If that doesn't help, it will actually go to court and the judge will almost certainly rule in your favour

    I've done this many times, won my case every single time

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,557 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's been a couple of mentions of the 'you should get six years', and this has come up on another thread - i had taken that to mean that the statute of limitations on exercising your legal rights is six years, not that the good should last six years. am i reading that right?



  • Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wow, that's awesome.

    But the "playing dumb" part is still unscrupulous on behalf of the store staff.

    And most consumers (as I wasn't up until now), are not going to be well informed on their statutory rights.

    ......

    Basically in my case recently, I took out "tech insurance" on my 1500 euro purchase, but discontinued it in May (having made the purchase the previous July), cause I figured if something were to go wrong, it would do so in that first time period.

    I cancelled the direct debt, but their system didn't register the cancellation, so they think I'm still paying - and when I went in 1 year + two weeks beyond the conventional warranty period, they saw my insurance was still good (even though I stopped paying it), and repaired it (which involved replacing the screen).

    So........ I did get a repair, but through a misunderstanding or admin error with insurance on their behalf, basically.

    .........

    I had intended to reinstate my insurance when I go to collect the machine (next week it comes back from repair), but having read this information, now intend to simply use my consumer right moving forward.

    I've paid 100 euro in tech insurance fees already which, according to consumer rights, I would not have needed.

    No big deal, and ultimately they did a fairly costly repair in good time (2 weeks mandatory repair under tech insurance).

    But definitely not shelling out 200 euro for 24 months insurance cover moving forward - knowing these consumer rights are in place (and I will be following to the letter your outline of how to enforce those consumer rights).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,760 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Do not EVER get extra warranty. It is 100% income for the retailer and they will occur zero extra risk or cost. You are covered under your statutory rights

    @magicbastarder - no. There are no hard and fast rules about this. There is some jurisprudence but what usage you can expect from an appliance varies wildly. A washing machine in a family of 7, maybe you'd get 2 years. A mobile phone also maybe 2 years. A fridge possibly 5 years, etc. (making these figures up as I go along)

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,557 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i did once have an amusing conversation with a lad, i think in currys, about 20 years ago. i bought an electric razor as a present for my brother, i think it was €75. the sales guy asked did i want to buy the extended warranty, €15. i said no, it wasn't worth it. he offered it to me for a tenner then. i bargained him down to €2 and bought it for the laugh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    The guy I dealt with in Harvey Norman told me because I was offered the option of purchasing an extended warranty and declined it that then meant I was liable for any problems after 12 months because in his own words "we can't be sure any of the electrical goods we sell will last beyond the 12 month warranty"

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,760 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Like I said the floor staff haven't a clue. In your case it's a bit more sinister. Typical case of a dodgy salesperson on commission, doing anything to get the money, even lie and cheat.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    I'll email HN and let them know I've started the process with the small claims court and see if they change their stance, im not holding my breath though!

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    If you do go ahead with the claim, make sure you put their corporate address on the form, and not just the address of the shop in question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Yep cheers I put the full company name as it appears on their listing

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,770 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    You have consumer rights beyond some lousy 1 year shop guarantee - there’s a reasonable expectation that goods will last a sufficient length of time- it’s good to see you using those rights- everyone should - tie up the store in plenty of legal paperwork and they’ll soon start changing their tune



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,557 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Worth mentioning that to the court if you get a chance - an employee of HN admitting that they're selling substandard goods!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Yep shame I didn't record the conversation, the guy really was terrible at his job. I have a nice thread of emails that should help me, I've sent them another mail today to let them know I've sent it off to the small claims court. I bought an LG OLED off them recently which came with a 5 year warranty and when I asked him about that he just shrugged and said only expensive tvs came with long warranties as if a €600 tv was nothing. I know the likes of richer sounds have their own rep on boards and offer great warranties and you can see why the savvy shopper will buy from them to avoid all this nonsense

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭GIMP


    Op I posted the below in 2020, similar issue with HN we got satisfaction when SCC case was initiated, they really treat their customers poorly!

    *************************


    Just an update to this for anyone looking for future advice or reference.


    We went down the Small Claims route, initially HN contacted us offering a credit note but it was limited to the purchase of a new tv only not shop credit, which is fair tbh.


    We refused this on the basis that over 4 months had passed since our initial reporting of the faulty tv and we had to purchase a new one in the meantime at our expense.


    Outcome, they asked for the return of tv via courier and we got a cheque for the full purchase price of the tv. Case never progressed to SC but it was well worth the E25 registering the claim.



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