This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

the_amazing_raisin · 30-08-2023 07:32PM

Mileage works out to 186km per day (assuming driving 5 days a week)

Would and Ioniq do that reliably without fast charging?

The owner might have had a charger in work so they could avoid fast charging, and if it's free they'd save a ton of cash

Let's just say for giggles that the whole thing was done at 6c/kWh (I'm sort of averaging the night rate over the past few years)

Ioniq gets something like 12kWh/100km on average if I'm remembering correctly, so that's 33,600kWh over 6 years

Total cost about €2k for charging

Diesel car averaging 5l/100km and maybe €1.50/l over 280,000km would cost €21k 😳

So the fuel savings alone pay for the deprecation (assuming my math is correct, big assumption 🤣)

unkel · 30-08-2023 07:43PM

My brand new Ioniq cost me less in total cost of ownership over 3 years than the petrol worthless banger it replaced (which didn't need any maintenance apart from me changing oil myself etc.)

the_amazing_raisin · 30-08-2023 07:53PM

What would be people's guesses as to the maintenance cost difference for the Ioniq and the equivalent diesel?

Ioniq is probably on its third or fourth set of tyres by now, but other than that and pollen filters there wouldn't be much

So €200-300 per year average?

Diesel would presumably need oil change every year, new oil filters, adblue and probably at least one DPF filter change (and the new tyres on top)

I've no idea what that would cost having never owned a diesel, but I feel like you're looking around at least €500 per year?

This is all assuming you got a garage to do it

unkel · 30-08-2023 08:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048615#Comment_121048615

Are you joking? A diesel with 280k km? The list of things that will probably have gone wrong at that stage is too long to mention. It seems you have forgotten all the really expensive ones 😁

I was in Frank Keane's recently (free recall of my i3 and test driving i4 M50) and several people around me were presented with eye watering diesel bills. Diesels are a totally and utterly failed technology. On top of that giving cancer to and even killing millions of people. Our children and grand children will be disgusted we all let this happen, just to save a few bob in fuel.

listermint · 30-08-2023 08:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048615#Comment_121048615

For the same 5 years accumulation in single off big ticket items over that mileage arguably average 700-1000 per year maintenance.

ELM327 · 30-08-2023 08:03PM

That ioniq is a great bargain. I love a high mile hero and if I weren't on the job hunt again (2 fintech layoffs in 2023!) I'd be all over it. At the moment most of my local miles are in my 2011 leaf24.

User1998 · 30-08-2023 08:18PM

Not taking anything away from the Ioniq, but I don’t think people realise how reliable diesels are for the first 5 years of their life when driven correctly.

You’d have absolutely no DPF or EGR issues at that mileage. Just regular oil and filter changes. And have people forgotten about manufacturers warranties?

All going good your still probably talking €350+ in maintenance per year, because of tyres and a possible timing belt and waterpump. And obviously high fuel costs too.

ELM327 · 30-08-2023 08:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048696#Comment_121048696

You could absolutely have DPF or EGR issues in the first 5 years. In fact, it happened repeatedly to a lot of folks who bought e60 520d for the cheap tax in 08-09 but used the cars around town. They arent covered by warranty either.

EVs are a whole nother level when it comes to maintenance. Ive done some miles in my leaf 24 thats 12 years old and I bought for 2.5k sight unseen from an auction. I havent spent a cent on it and nor do I foresee needing to. This from a guy who, before buying my first EV in 2016, was doing 50-60k a year in sub 2k auction diesels, running them on green/red diesel (or anything else I could find) to save money. So I know all about high mile cars and maintenance. Oil and filter changes at a main stealer (required - usually - to keep up the warranty) can run to 500 quid or more. Take your 5 years and that 2.5k pays for my leaf that doesnt need a yearly service. Do you see it now, it's another level. The only servicing needed on an EV is for consumables. Tires, suspension, pollen filter etc. Even brakes are used less so the pads and discs last longer. Hell I even got 100k km out of the original brake pads, discs and tires on my first leaf

the_amazing_raisin · 30-08-2023 08:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048649#Comment_121048649

So let's say very conservatively it's costing an extra €500 per year to maintain the diesel, so €3k over the 6 years

Who knows, maybe you could buy some unicorn of a diesel car that manages 6 years without anything breaking 🤣

So we're up to €24k savings, plus road tax and tolls might come to another €1k savings

Anyway, my point is that if that Ioniq was bought new for €29k cash and sells for €7.5k then WORST CASE the owner makes a €3.5k profit when the savings are taken into account

And that's also assuming our unicorn diesel doesn't depreciate somehow 😏

ELM327 · 30-08-2023 08:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048783#Comment_121048783

And the ioniq was more likely 25k not 29

the_amazing_raisin · 30-08-2023 08:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048641#Comment_121048641

They were very cheap to run when no-one gave a crap about the life shortening sh!t coming out the exhaust

One thing we can all thank the EU for was pushing the Euro 7 standard which is effectively going to be the deathbed of the diesel engine

Of course it'd be nice if they'd ignore the car lobby a bit more and get on with it, but I guess that's to be expected when 3 of your biggest members have big domestic car industries

User1998 · 30-08-2023 09:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048750#Comment_121048750

Oh absolutely it can happen, but like I said in my post, “if the vehicle is driven correctly”, you will probably not run into any issues. We were discussing a 280k km 6 year old EV, which is pretty much confirmed to be motorway miles as it was not a taxi. So the diesel equivalent being driven the same way for the same 6 years with a lot of that under manufacturers warranty would be very reliable in that instance.

But yeah other I completely agree about the fuel savings, servicing costs, all the other bits and pieces, an EV will almost always be cheaper.

con747 · 30-08-2023 09:27PM

Any need for concern that the Ioniq was only bought by the seller a month ago? Or just a quick flip?

unkel · 30-08-2023 09:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048806#Comment_121048806

List was €28.5k for the white one on the road price with €700 for any other colour. There was a scrappage scheme at the time though, €4k

I got mine in silver metallic on the road for €25.4k after starting negotiations with all 30 Hyundai dealers in Ireland and playing them off each other to squeeze every last bit out of it.

zg3409 · 30-08-2023 11:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048477#Comment_121048477

Based on forums the 28kWh ioniq typically reports 100% battery health up to 160,000 and then starts to drop. It may drop relatively quickly then as the hidden buffer is gone. It would be interesting to see what the car reports at 280,000km. Range may or may not be impacted depending on the value.

I would ask for proof that reduction gear oil has been changed or change it immediately as a precaution. It should be changed every 100k, km

In terms of a bargain I would worry about very high mileage wear on components in general, when compared to a lower mileage car a few thousand euro more. Compared to the same mileage leaf the ioniq is a better battery car with forced air cooling of battery.

If it was a second car with very low annual usage then the risk is lower but driving it decent miles gets you way beyond the typical design life for many parts. Things like switches may start to go. If you want to risk that hassle then make that saving.

poker--addict · 02-09-2023 07:24AM

Feels like a lot of ID3 starting to come on market and price coming down compared to what was available just 2 months ago;

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/34918942

VOLKSWAGEN ID3 Life PRO €21950

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/34896783

Volkswagen ID.3 Pro 2020 €23,900 (private)

unkel · 02-09-2023 07:28AM

Market is overwhelmed with ID.3, which is great, they are starting to represent good value for money. Personally I would wait a few months and / or drive a hard bargain and pick one up for under €20k

But what would I know. I predicted something very similar about the Tesla Model 3 (cheapest for sale on DD about €35k at the time - I said they could be bought for around €28k soon) about 6 months ago, and I was ridiculed 😂

poker--addict · 02-09-2023 07:36AM

Tesla is holding high prices- basically none under 30k without significant compromise on mileage or something else.

I thought they would drop , I think it is a function of pure supply demand though (rather than unreasonable expectations based on pre-price cut purchase price). It's only since the price cuts tesla's have come on most irish peoples radar, so demand high now but no stock. VWs however are peoples bread and butter so inevitable that the first wave start to enter second hand market at year 3.

Unfortunately, as keen for a 2nd tesla in the house as I am, I suspect I will wait and get something like an ID3 which is easily resealable, until the first proper wave of M3 enter market.

unkel · 02-09-2023 07:44AM

Your observation is correct, Tesla DD prices have gone up again considerably in the last while. My theory is that this was a function of a lot of Tesla owners desperate to sell their cars because they had a new Model Y coming and the Tesla trade in price was an insult.

I personally know about half a dozen people in that situation and every single one sold their car far too cheaply (LOL - yes it is me saying a car was too cheap, I don't normally ever say that 😂), but what could they do? The only other option was cancel the Model Y. But that was likely not a socially / family acceptable solution

joe1303l · 02-09-2023 08:00AM

Another well priced e-Golf at €16.5K. Poor ad but likely to be an Executive spec version judging by the alloy wheels. Far nicer car than an ID.3 but has its limits on range. https://www.donedeal.ie/view/34888882

Volkswagen Golf 2019

unkel · 02-09-2023 08:25AM

Nice find and a sharp offer might take that. Totally agree, world of difference between an e-Golf and an ID.3. The latter is nothing more than an econobox. Nothing wrong with that, but a huge drop down from the semi-premium Golf.

Gumbo · 02-09-2023 08:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048349#Comment_121048349

You’ve mentioned taxi about 3 times for this car. It was not a taxi.

unkel · 02-09-2023 08:43AM

@poker--addict - "Tesla is holding high prices- basically none under 30k without significant compromise on mileage or something else"

Here's a low enough mileage 2020 Model 3, so 6 months bumper to bumper warranty left and years of battery warranty

Asking under €29k, I'd try get it for not much more than €25k

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-2020/34989612

Gumbo · 02-09-2023 08:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058897#Comment_121058897

Don’t forget model 3 prices will increase once the facelift is on the Irish site. It may keep the second hand one sip slightly.

joe1303l · 02-09-2023 09:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058977#Comment_121058977

Surely existing used model 3’s will start to drop further or certainly become more widely available when the Highland versions start getting delivered ?