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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 inbloom427


    Please stop. McCarthy has been great and rightly deserves his place on the plane but he isn’t taking Henderson’s position, in the starting XV or match-day team for any big game in the World Cup. Henderson was fantastic against Italy, best lock on the day.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Ah lads, the options are huge in so many positions. We could probably play our 3rd choice in a good few positions and still come close to winning the World Cup. There's obvious exceptions in some positions but the strength in depth is one of the reasons we're the best in the World.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭sxt


    Tadhgh Furlong and James Ryan being complete shadows of themselves has to be a concern. Two key positions and these guys used to be stand out players week in week out...There was a time when Furlong was a rampaging force of nature and the first person to be on a world 15. Hes simply not the same player anymore. A complete shadow

    There was a 2 or 3 years when James Ryan was man of the match every other week, he was destined to be just as influential on a game as paul o Connell. A future lions Captain. He's never gotten back to anywhere near that level. He barely gets a mention on this thread anymore which speaks volumes



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,492 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I see race to be crowned the new "hyperbole king" is well and truly up and running



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    James Ryan has had an exceptionally good season both for Leinster and Ireland.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The opposite of this is true when it comes to James Ryan. He had a dip in form after his break thru season; but he’s been exceptionally good in the last 12 months or so. He’s really upped his physicality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,223 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I’m not sure that posters cares about reality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I suppose if we had Coombes on the field we'd have scored from the pick and go before the Hansen try 😁

    I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make about the backs scoring our tries on Saturday, do you think it was the plan or that's just how it happened?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Have you been watching the wrong games this year? Ryan has been fantastic over the last 12 months. It's arguable that Leinster collapsed in on themselves in the CC final after he went off. He's been that influential.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    Sheehan and Kelleher are proving to be very brittle indeed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 TheRestorationOfPeter


    Whos Former Former Former? Munster mafia? Salty tears? Bullied??

    What the hell is that all about child? And Kleyn?? Who cares?



    It was obvious v England that he doesn't posses the power of Coombes. No way would Coombes get the ball stripped from him. Twice!!

    Not. A. Chance.

    Coombes should have been given at least a chance v England or Samoa.


    We are playing SA. You must have impact from the bench. Prendergast is not it.



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Neither Prendergast nor Coombes would be in the plans to make the bench v SA. Our match day backrows are POM, VDF, Doris and Conan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭letsbefair


    its gas the guys on here who think they are a better judge of a player than Andy Farrell or Paul O'Connell. They have no provincial bias, their sole aim is to get the best squad together to win the World Cup. They watch the players in minute detail and I for one think they get it right 99% of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭connachta


    Murray is constant..ly slow and far for the required level



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It could be down to nothing more than England gifting us far too much space and time on the ball, its just very rare that we score that many tries and at least a couple aren't through the pack.

    It should be huge concern for England that we ran in 5 tries like that, but I think Ireland deserves a lot of credit for the variation we showed, especially bringing the back 3 in as first receivers and play makers.

    Overall despite a rusty performance I though the pack were dominant and then some at the breakdown, and the distribution and use of space by our backs (with plenty of link work from the forwards) was top notch.

    That's as much as I'd have hoped for before KO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Disagree. Murray was excellent in the last 6 months of last season, including the 6 Nations.

    There was a lot of worry at the time about JGP’s absence, but Murr showed there needn’t have been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,121 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    That was true for a while under JVG, Murray's gamestyle had gone stale and had not kept up with the increasing tempo of international and high level club rugby, but in the last 12 months, that has dramatically changed and Murray has shown now that he has adapted to the faster tempo without losing any of his other skills that led him to be the best scrum half in the world until Dupont burst onto the scene in 2019/2020

    Obviously he made a bad pass in the England game (as did JGP on multiple occasions) but to say he's not at the level required is just not true.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,121 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Do you think Kilcoyne is the 3rd best Loosehead in Ireland in 2023?

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 TheRestorationOfPeter


    Yes.

    In the context of Conan injury either now or against Tonga. Prendergast comes onto the bench.

    We saw on Saturday what Ireland are missing without Doris or Conan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I find it very difficult to believe that anyone who actually watched the full 80 on Saturday could come away from it thinking Prendergast didn't further his case for inclusion unless they had a fairly prominent bias towards other players beforehand.

    The bloke had a dodgy opening 5 minutes but went really well thereafter in all aspects of the game. And that's what the coaches will have wanted from him. He showed that he can play a variety of different ways. He carried hard, getting over the gain line. He showed nice hands and distribution with a couple of key passes leading up to the Hansen and Earls tries. He rucked like a madman. It's not often you see someone blow Itoje out of the way to get to the scrum half.

    He certainly wasn't perfect but he's come away from that game with a net positive contribution comfortably.

    If he is included, which is looking very likely, it probably means a 19/14 split....which opens the door for a big call in the backs in terms of leaving out a significant name. If we're going with the widely accepted 12 backs (6 half backs, the back 3 and the 3 preferred centres), that leaves us only with two spots. Everything would suggest that JOB and Earls would be those two last spots....but they're very similar in terms of what they cover for us and leaves us quite short in the centre.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 TheRestorationOfPeter


    I find it very difficult to believe that anyone who actually watched the full 80 on Saturday could come away from it thinking Prendergast didn't further his case for inclusion as Jordi Murphy II.

    He got stripped for the second time closer to the 10 min mark btw.

    He is a good player. He did ok. But he is not a power athlete like Coombes. There is no way Coombes is getting stripped of the ball.


    Its game week against SA. Conan gets injured. Prendergast or Coombes. I'd go with the latter. That is all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭phog


    What I find amusing is that some players get off with an error or two or even more while others get their errors called out as if it was the losing of the match. I agree with Buer here, it's probably down to a fairly prominent bias towards those players beforehand and every minute error is going to be over stated while others have their error dismissed and "otherwise" they having a good game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,886 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Whatever about the squad there will be some decisions to be made about starters. Furlong and, to a lesser extent, Henshaw don't seem to have hit fifth gear for us lately.

    Furlong was one I queried last winter on here and was laughed at but it's too long now to not acknowledge that he isn't hitting the sort of heights he was hitting. I'd be starting Bealham I think.

    I've always maintained there's little between Aki, Henshaw and Ringrose so if it's Aki at 12 I'm fine with that. I do think Henshaw is the best defender of the three though.

    A bench of that has Henshaw, Furlong and Henderson coming on is serious oomph.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭connachta


    Prendergast is good enough proved it again on saturday, and more versatile than both Coombes and McCarthy, so he gets his chance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Centre is an interesting one. I suspect they went RB and Aki here, because RB has plenty of experience with Henshaw provincially (and obviously Crowley has little experience with either).

    Personally would go Henshaw at 12 (but would have no issue whatsoever if Aki got the nod) and Crowley in the 22 shirt.

    I think of the 2 starting 10 performances over the last 2 matches, Crowley's was much the better. Yes, it was against a weaker team, but it was playing with a scratch team. While RB was playing against more difficult opposition, but was playing with almost the first choice 15.

    (And while Crowley did force an offload turning over the ball, I'm fairly sure RB threw a pass to no one that hit the deck in the first half too)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    So by that logic you’d pick Coombes over Whitelock too?

    https://amp.rugbyonslaught.com/maro-itoje-reduces-sam-whitelock-infant-status-stripping-ball-grasp/

    Itoje is a freak when it comes to stripping the ball. He’s done it to some of the best in the game. Think the huge tackle and turn over straight after the strip will be what the coaches like about prendergast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Coombes has been released from the squad. I think we can all move on now. Especially after Prendergasts impressive performance. All players make errors, it’s the overall performance over the 80 that we need to look at rather than nitpicking errors early on.



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Coombes has been released from the squad. I think we can all move on now

    Ha ha ha ha ha.

    You haven't been around here long have you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭connachta


    Yes!

    now the "problem" is : are there 2 spots left for him and McCarthy

    There are if we leave Stockdale out and go for the 19/14 split



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭connachta


    My choices (into bracket the choices I'd disagree with at some different extent, the rest is obvious)

    Hookers: Dan SheehanRonan Kelleher, Tom Stewart (will be Rob Herring)

    Props: Andrew Porter, Tadhg Furlong, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Tom O’Toole, Jeremy Loughman (will be David Kilcoyne)

    Second rows: James RyanIain Henderson, Tadgh Beirne, Joe McCarthy

    Back rows: Josh van der Flier, Jack Conan, Caelan Doris, Peter O’Mahoney, Cian Prendergast (may be Ryan Baird)

    Scrumhavles: Jamieson Gibson-Park, Craig Casey, Conor Murray (may be the later as 2nd)

    Flyhavles: Johnny Sexton, Jack Crowley, Ross Byrne (may be the later as 2nd)

    Centres: Garry RingroseRobbie HenshawBundee Aki, Ciaran Frawley (only because he cover 10 and 15, if not it would have been McCloskey)

    Outside backs: Mack Hansen, James Lowe, Hugo Keenan, Jimmy O’Brien (may be Keith Earls, but please only 4 back-3 guys as Frawley AND Ringrose can cover there and none of the 3 starters are injury-prone)



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