M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

IMO apart from the eastern section of the Belfast Motorway Box, the completed NI system from the 1960s would be what is required.

Off topic about Spain, but one other factor in the lower use of motorways was that at the central goverment built out a comprehensive high speed rail network between Madrid and the coastal cities, and it's now filling in the links between the major cities, and increasing connections to France. For inter city travel in Spain, it's often cheaper and faster to go by train now than drive.

Right, and I know this is really not on topic now, but we also need to start building rail where it's needed, not where there happens to be an existing permanent way. The location of Greystones DART station is about the worst place you could put it off you had a choice.. it's fine for Dubliners coming down for a day trip, but for people living in the town trying to get to work in Dublin, it's really far from where people live.

The problem there is that most of the population live further inland so the only way to get the rail line to serve them in to tunnel. The same applies to Bray. A tunnel from south of Bray station to south of Greystones would be the only way to serve more of the populations of both towns. It would be about 10km, it might be possible to have some ground level section between the two towns but given the terrain, that probably wouldn't be much cheaper than tunnelling.

Another option would be a shorter tunnelled spur (maybe even single track) in each town that only connects to the existing line on one end. So Bray DARTs would continue inland in a 2km tunnel, terminating at the end of the tunnel, then head back north serving all stations. Something similar could be done in Greystones, although I'm sure removing DARTs from the existing station wouldn't be popular with businesses in the town.

Absolutely. I was not suggesting that Ireland should do the same, just noting that it is a major factor in Spain's transport.

A high speed (300+ km/h) rail service won't work in a country our size.. you need a network with over 400km between large centres before HSR can work for you.

But.. roads now?

while we're on the subject of Bray-Greystones, one of the local councillors (who is generally quite on the ball about public transport issues) has said the Dart+ plans have been scaled back from doubling the whole line between Bray Head and Greystones station, to just a passing loop, presumably just before the long tunnel where there is already space.

I guess they think that as the trains will likely to be passing each other there 90% of the time anyway, there's not much benefit to doing the rest of that section which would require widening cuttings and bridges.

I know this is wandering off topic, but at least it's something that will probably happen rather than crayon fantasies about tunnelling under Glen of the Downs.

there is a plan commissioned by Irish Rail that proposed doubling the track between Bray Head and Greystones station, this would have allowed for a 20 minute each-way frequency. It was assumed that this would find it's way into Dart+ but I guess they believe they can achieve the same result with a shorter cheaper passing loop.

I have my doubts, Irish Rail are not exactly known for their operational efficiency and punctuality, the shorter the section of double track, there more likely the "operational difficulties" if trains are running behind.

I suspect that the sum of exactly €0.00 invested by the government in the railway system for the past decade has more to do with operational problems on the network than the competence of the engineering staff.

The terrain makes double-tracking below Bray very, very expensive, and it’s the last line segment on the DART system, which puts a hard, and low, limit on the number of through trains you’ll see on section. Even with more inter-city services coming through, 3 DART trains per hour each way is a modest goal and easily reached. A “passing loop” can be pretty long: long enough that neither train needs to slow down much: Japanese rail lines are often single-tracked, with double tracked stations and one loop midway between stations.

In Northern Ireland’s plan, M11 was to be the motorway to the border. The numbering tells you the importance of that route to the Stormont government, and it’s no surprise that no work was done on it before London called a halt to the whole circus. It was originally to have had a free-flow interchange at J8 of the NI M1, but that was scaled back dramatically to the current A101/M1 junction.

Okay, now that I’ve used M11 to speak of an entirely different road, and one that doesn’t even exist, I think we can say we’re all off topic?

I’m as guilty as everyone else, but N11, anyone?

It was in the Wicklow Times too, although John Brady claiming credit for the Council decision in that one! Mentioned that they're getting ahead of the planned upgrade in Bus service.

I know they say the jn4-jn14 project is paused but will be interesting to see how this new jn4-jn9 buslane project will impact on any future upgrades for the jn4-jn9 section.

Hopefully they don't box themselves in too much and cause themselves problems in the future, but alas we have form for that in this country, even within past upgrades on this section.

Motorway hard shoulders exist for a purpose. I wouldn't mind if they maintained the hard shoulder as well as add a bus priority lane. Of course this is Ireland so that won't happen.

The UK is scrambling to undo smart motorways because of the hard shoulder issue.

Also we all know why this "interim" solution really exists - to bide time until the bike salesman is out of transport.

The Perferred Option for the N11/M11 Bus Priority Interim Scheme will go on public display tomorrow at 12 noon.

I don't get the logic behind this scheme.

So you drive to a car park and get a bus to Shankhill and then what? How do you get to your final destination and how do you get back to your car?

How would this help people who commute to Dublin suburbs/city by car?

Am I missing something?

That's interesting, not sure if it was yourself or another poster who mentioned in the past that this may be how they get the project to move along. Close junctions, which are problematic for traffic flow, in the guise of the bus lane project.

Its just a shame they didn't have the will or drive to see through the main scheme last year. Yes there were compromises, but overly it was a pragmatic plan imo.

Few initial thoughts.

-The bus lane looks quite broken up, particularly north bound, seems like left/nearside traffic will have to allow the buses rejoin main line as a regular occurrence.

-Not only will Herbert road jn close but it will be turned into a cul-de-sac. I expect big push back from residents over that.

-Appears they intend to join 20 bends road to Berryfield lane roundabout and to then access jn6. Again, I expect big push back from residents here too.

-Nice to see active travel routes along the route.

-Also I see the plan includes replacing Kilarney rd. roundabout with a signal controlled junction. Time will tell how that works out.

-Revised layout at Kilmac, with direct lilo access to replace mini roundabout and garage will no longer have access to n11. This will help with buses imo, as often they get delayed with cars queuing for the garage.

-Edit:- Also noticed that new access roads from Quill rd. will be created for Moorepark cottages and somw private residence.

Yeah, there's a combination of factors at play there. Still good to see it being redesigned though, so as not to impede access to n11.

I suppose this will be a good thing for the traffic flow on jn7 and will utilise jn6 more.

Regarding the service roads and active travel routes, not sure how they plan to segregate these. I presume bollards or traffic islands.

Little bit on the main scheme, interesting words from the councillor. Only €2.5m to progress the scheme to next stage but funding is being held back. Seems he could be onto something. Very small money in the grand scheme of things.

I see a local Councillor is organising a meeting to 'rally opposition' to the closure of Herbert rd and Enniskerry junctions and also the removal of roundabout at Hills garage for traffic controlled junction.

Like with the previous proposals, when pragmatic solutions are suggested people still aren't happy and end up delaying or cancelling much needed infrastructure improvements.

Everyone gives out about the traffic congestion, yet when they bring out plans, people don't appreciate the constraints that engineers and designers are working too.,

Herbert Road has a connection to a dual carriageway that should be closed tomorrow. The church and the hairpin bend that e is absolutely no way for a dual carriageway to connect with any road. Its insanity, and the residents should take that into account in their complaining.

The problem is, if a link road was created somewhere to alleviate that situation as part of the upgrade, the same residents would still complain. Something has to give somewhere.

I don't have a problem with public meetings, but he's being disingenuous when he says the the Enniskerry turn will be closed. Yes it will be closed but the solution is to have it connected to jn6 which imo, will mean less traffic using the hills 'roundabout' junction.

Also I wonder how many people are exiting Herbert rd only to exit n11 at jn7 again. The thing that skips most peoples view is that the n11 isn't supposed to be used as a local road, which is why the original plan had many benefits. But as usual everyone is outraged and nobody wants to compromise how they currently use the road.

@Pete_Cavan I like that idea of making the triangle one way. Wasn't sure what you were referring to at first but it would actually be great use of roads and probably make for freer flowing junction.