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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭Enduro


    How notable that there is not a sinlge peice of supporting evidence for this entire post. You have been called out on everything you have asserted in tha tpost in tha past, and yet you complain that "others" are just repeating themselves in thise thread.

    Once again, this is just evidence free waffle, backed up with no facts whatsoever.

    Are you still running away from the question : Do you agree that post pubescent male sex athletes have a significant performance advantage over females sex athletes? Yes or no?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    There's no such thing as the Men's World Chess Championship. It's an Open tournament.


    Also, no individual player has been banned; that's just discussing the rule change proposal we've been looking at here the last few pages


    Chess is a member of the International Olympic Committee and I'd wonder if this is arising in chess now because of moves across the IOC in general (which we can see in other sports). So while this doesn't impact chess as much as it would other sports, it's still a good movement to support



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,946 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    They’ve been a member of the IOC a long time now and have never been in an Olympics? I could see how it might be a move if it weren’t in conflict with the IOC guidelines, but if FIDE wanted to distance itself from the IOC, then I could see how it might be a good move. Given the games are being held in Paris, there’s a possibility chess might make an appearance in some form as another aim of the IOC is to jump on the bandwagon to promote their own events to attract young people, and chess does fit in with their aims of including more accessible sports. There’s almost no sport more accessible than chess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,521 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I would say you've jumped the shark, but the shark is now a far away dot for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,946 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    FIN in that case I guess… 😬


    I’d say I was sorry for that awful, awful pun, the French was still booting around in my brain, but you wouldn’t believe me 😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    But a lot of sports are already open competition. Hence my confusion with the post you quoted was about (not you post).

    Just not a chance females will compete with males in the majority.

    I'm absolutely astounded that this conversation is still going on.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,477 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Posts deleted

    Attack the post, not the poster, and do not backseat mod and quit the bickering



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Nice dig at my intelligence. Probably against the charter, but I'll let it slide.

    There's a huge difference in sport.

    Okay construction. Any advantages for males? Also noticed you didn't mention bin collection people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,946 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    There was no dig at your intelligence, your intelligence or your intellect is completely unrelated to understanding the point. There’s good reason you won’t have understood the point, but it has nothing to do with your intellect or your intelligence.

    The point certainly wasn’t about advantages or disadvantages, and I didn’t mention bin collectors, just like I didn’t mention many thousands of other occupations or social activities. Machinery does most of the work now in waste collection management and recycling. This has been enabled by a combination of technology and increased health and safety standards. It’s meant that previously in an industry dominated by men, there are now more women in the industry than there previously were, with the advantage that less men are dying, but the disadvantage for some men at least, being that men who would previously have been employed in the industry, are now unemployed. Similar trends have emerged in the construction industry. Obviously increasing standards and quality of living have influenced that outcome too.

    Sports aren’t any different - some sports are thriving, some sports are dying on their arse, and new sports are emerging all across the globe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Sports are different. This is about fairness for women in sports.

    Let's keep on the topic without bringing non sports related jobs into it.

    From how you've been educated in this thread, do you think biological males, past puberty, have an advantage over biological females in physical sporting pursuits?

    Let's make it easier. Soccer. Could have said rugby...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,946 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    From how I’ve been educated in this thread? Your question isn’t even worth thinking about in that case. What sort of a man would allow themselves to be beaten by a woman? A man will win of course in all circumstances, in every sport.

    Like this fine specimen:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/04/13/obese-binman-loses-unfair-dismissal-claim/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I'm at an absolute and complete utter loss. Give us your beliefs without insulting posters please.

    Educated? Maybe science, sports(in particular chess) and logic. You freely admitted you know nothing about them. I'll put my hands up if I'm wrong if you've developed a new found understanding of any. Knowledge is good.

    Edit: bad grammar.



  • Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why does every post have to be the same length as War and Peace, and say so much whilst saying so little at the same time?

    Never any evidence to back up your claims. Assertions thrown around with abandon, and a complete disregard for other's far more balanced and backed up points.

    Abject meaningless waffling word salad and nothing else besides. Contrarianism for the sake of it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The Journal have published an article,Inside Ireland's culture war on gender: Why there's more debate on trans issues than ever before (thejournal.ie), on the current trans issues in general and it's terrible. Take the sporting side of the things this is what they've written.

    "Discussions around the issue can also misrepresent the problem by claiming that trans athletes are more competitive than they are, solely because one person has won an event – ignoring all of the other trans athletes who aren’t as competitive.

    (This has also played out in a different way in Ireland, where the IRFU last year banned trans women from partaking in female rugby competitions, despite there being just two such players registered here.)

    A much-cited study by Joanna Harper of Loughborough University, published in 2021, also suggested that women who have transitioned do not receive significant competitive advantages against those who have not in sporting competitions."

    The problem here is that the study is on transwomen and the conclusion states:

    "In transwomen, hormone therapy rapidly reduces Hgb to levels seen in cisgender women. In contrast, hormone therapy decreases strength, LBM and muscle area, yet values remain above that observed in cisgender women, even after 36 months. These findings suggest that strength may be well preserved in transwomen during the first 3 years of hormone therapy."

    The author talks about women who have transitioned but the study is about transwomen. Women who transition to transmen take testosterone which is a PED. So what does the author actually mean here?

    If the author means transwomen when he says women who've transitioned then the study used contradicts the claim he's cited it for. The author also seems to be ignoring that the IRFU rule change was based on multiple studies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,521 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    When someone has an agenda to push, misunderstandings and unclear language are par for the course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,946 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    The author talks about women who have transitioned but the study is about transwomen. Women who transition to transmen take testosterone which is a PED. So what does the author actually mean here? 

    If the author means transwomen when he says women who've transitioned then the study used contradicts the claim he's cited it for. The author also seems to be ignoring that the IRFU rule change was based on multiple studies.


    I think the author is saying that of those men who are transgender, the ones who are on hormone therapy have no significant competitive advantages in sports competitions over those men who are transgender who are not on hormone therapy. The author then goes on to say -

    Of course, Harper’s research is just one study and there is still no consensus around the issue of trans competitors the sports science field, where more research is required if there is to be agreement on her findings.

    It wasn’t a study, it was a systematic review of literature (which selected 24 studies for review), similar to World Rugby basing their guidelines on multiple studies as you suggested, that led to the IRFU ban.

    There’s much more obfuscation and many criticisms of that article I’d have than just the ones you have, but they’re outside the scope of this thread. Taken as a whole though, the article does a fairly ok job of outlining the state of play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    Most sporting bodies have now acknowledged that transwomen have a physical advantage over cis women.

    I dont see that trend reversing, but it will probably stoke an argument ad infinitum from the trans movement, because it will forever create a dividing line between trans & cis women.

    Its sad for trans rights, but i suppose that the sporting bodies see it as an inconvenient truth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    People stop saying cis!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,946 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Most sporting bodies have now acknowledged that transwomen have a physical advantage over cis women.


    Most sporting bodies haven’t said anything either way. Some international sporting bodies have done as you suggested, but their affiliated sporting bodies at national level have decided to ignore the guidelines, meaning that competitors records won’t be recognised for qualification for international competitions, but they can still compete at national and local levels.

    The FRU for example have ignored the guidelines issued by World Rugby, and similar organisations in a few countries have made similar statements regarding FIDEs decision:

    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/08/international-chess-official-suggests-women-cant-compete-with-men-due-to-hormones-endurance/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No.

    It's amazing that the anti-trans movement is equally chock full of people who declared and applauded the death of "political correctness" then they demand you aren't allowed to use that word because it offends them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    This thread is not anti trans. You well know that.

    I refer to myself as a man. What would you refer to me as?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's a message board. I don't know you from adam, and the topic is posts, not posters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Lost.

    I'm not a user. Calling me a drug addict?

    I'm a man. Say it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If you're not a user why do you have an account. Complete bad faith to insinuate that has anything to do with narcotics.

    I've given you my answer, you will just have to cordially remain disgruntled about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    That post is cowardly.

    Do you accept me as a male?

    Yes or no. Simple.

    I've always been honest on this thread. It wasn't difficult. And I'll continually to do so.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I do not know you from Adam.

    I think we should just leave it there. Nobody is going to stop using the term cis, which is really what this rhetorical digging at me is about.



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