Sex for free rent: Why is this so wrong between consenting adults?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-08-2023 09:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937720#Comment_120937720

No, they wouldn't and again, I've pointed out the reason why: the customer is calling the shots if the tenant wants to terminate the agreement. This is not the case with sex workers.

Large bottle small glass · 04-08-2023 09:55AM

How does the Landlord doing this account for it?

Take a hypothetical landlord with five similar apartments. Five are taking in €2000/month and then after the "arrangement" four continue to take in €2000 while the fifth takes in €1000 or nothing.

What does he say to his accountant, RTB? What does he say to Revenue when he's picked for an audit? If he doesn't explain it is there a tax implication for renter in terms of BIK?

If he only takes in €1000 is he getting a 50% tax break or does he pay the tax on the €2000 gross.

I guess when the small head is leading the big head such things might not get though through 😀

04-08-2023 10:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937711#Comment_120937711

No.

Income from rental properties is taxable. How would a landlord declare these sexual favours for tax purposes? Or explain a reduction in rental price / income from any previous tenancy?

Unless you're suggesting they commit a crime and submit false records to RTB and Revenue to hide the "sex for rent" element of their rental income.

And, what happens when the tenant who provides sexual favours moves out / on, and a new tenant moves in?

I'm sure some of the landlords on here can correct me if I am mistaken, but there are strict rules on how the rental price of a property is calculated.

The new tenant's rent is linked to the rate charged to the previous tenant. The landlord can't just decide to hike it to market rate for a new tenant, if the new tenant is not prepared to provide sexual favours to make up the difference.

Seems like any landlord who would seek or accept such an arrangement would be putting themselves in a bit of a legal quagmire. For what? Their leg over?

If they are really that desperate for sex, wouldn't it be a lot less complicated to visit an actual sex worker, instead of involving their tenants and business into it?

And while it remains illegal to pay for sex, (though not to sell it) at least the balance of power between landlord / sex worker is more level, and a lot less complicated.

Become Death · 04-08-2023 10:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938278#Comment_120938278

All fair points.

Leg End Reject · 04-08-2023 11:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938278#Comment_120938278

I suppose the landlord could refund the difference every month? He'll pay tax on unearned income but it would mean future rental prices would be for market value.

I doubt they think it through though.

Montage of Feck · 04-08-2023 11:13AM

I'm up for selling my body for rent, can't be any more demeaning than to still be living with my parents.

But Seriously maybe SF should look at their own housing policies.This thing is a side show in the big scheme, the real issue is the lack of fair access to housing for taxpayers.

Overheal · 04-08-2023 11:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937181#Comment_120937181

Human nature also has people raping and murdering. Where do you hope to be going with this

Overheal · 04-08-2023 11:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937711#Comment_120937711

do you think if someone wants an easy A they should be able to screw their professor?

Overheal · 04-08-2023 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937720#Comment_120937720

“yeah if a child WANTS to play doctor…” /s

Someone caving to a power imbalance because they need somewhere to sleep in this case is not sex work it’s sex exploitation

Become Death · 04-08-2023 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938563#Comment_120938563

Absolutely not. But that isn't an even remotely similar scenario.

tinytobe · 04-08-2023 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937863#Comment_120937863

I would presume that would only be legal if the woman was living in the apartment for free, there was no letting agreement and she was in some king of sexual relationship with the owner of the property.

The law would most likely see sex in lieu of rent paid or a lower rent paid a form of prostitution. The law would a landlord demanding sex from a tennant see as some form of coercion.

In the end, and practical life I would also see it as the woman's fault for falling into this trap.

The landlord would hardly put it in the lease agreement to exepect sex for a lower rent. And even if she gives in to his demands he could still evict her as he can always prove that less rent was paid as agreed.

I can only encourage women who are faced with landlords who have expectations of sex, to build them a trap, invite him to the apartment to "discuss the arangement" and have it recorded, either on camera or at least with a microphone where his voice is identifiable, and then press charges.

Now there is a legal background to make this happen.

Become Death · 04-08-2023 11:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938572#Comment_120938572

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I don't think anyone is condoning someone being exploited. I certainly am not. I just think its naive to think there aren't people who would be more than happy to exchange sexual favours for reduced rent.

Overheal · 04-08-2023 11:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938589#Comment_120938589

Why not? I have something my professor wants they have something I need we are both consenting adults? Why absolutely not here and oh yeah why the heck not over there?

Become Death · 04-08-2023 11:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938606#Comment_120938606

because it would be falsifying an academic achievement.

Overheal · 04-08-2023 11:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938602#Comment_120938602

I think it’s naive to think some kids don’t want to join NAMBLA but that doesn’t make it consensual. People wanting to trade sex for rent doesn’t make it consensual, it’s by definition done for a power imbalance, a great one, a place to sleep, light, heat, a private residence. This arrangement also offers zero legal protections.

04-08-2023 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938539#Comment_120938539

Let's pretend like you were serious for a minute.

If you were willing to sell your body, wouldn't you prefer to have a choice in selecting or declining who your clients are?

There is very little to stop anyone becoming a sex worker if they were prepared to choose that path. There are also options other then selling intercourse (as someone pointed out above, not all sex workers sell intercourse).

However, if someone provides sexual favours to their landlord in lieu of rent the threat of eviction will always be hanging over their head if the tenant wanted to withdraw from that part of the agreement, for any reason. (Even if it's never said out loud).

This is literally the main reason why I believe that the provision of sexual favours in lieu of rent should never be allowed to form any part of a landlord / tenant agreement, even if both parties are willing to enter into such an agreement.

Now, I am not so niave as to believe that the Government formally passing a bill making such agreements illegal, will put a complete stop to it happening.

But it should never be something that is accepted, or normalised.

Become Death · 04-08-2023 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938614#Comment_120938614

Its a little disturbing that you are comparing an adults own choices regarding sex with NAMBLA.

You could make an argument that any exchange of sexual activity for money is the result of a power imbalance. They purchaser has more money that the seller wants and therefore has more power.

I'm torn on the subject to be honest. On one hand, who am I to tell people who would be happy to use sex as a bargaining tool, on the other hand, I can absolutely see how it could be used to exploit some people.

Do we also think that people who sell pictures of themselves on Only Fans etc because they are desperate to be able make ends meet and pay for their rent are being exploited? I know some people are happy to do so, but I also think there is a significant amount of people who do it because they have no other option.

Overheal · 04-08-2023 11:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938631#Comment_120938631

Only fans and red light are examples where you can pick and choose your clients, on a per client per transaction basis. You can call out sick. Both have structure and regulation, taxation and legal recourses. The client can only threaten to end the transaction, not make the sex worker homeless.

Become Death · 04-08-2023 12:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938692#Comment_120938692

I was not saying they are direct comparisons.

But there is a certain similarity between the two scenarios where someone who is willing and happy to use sex/sexual imagery for money/goods/rent and someone who is only doing so out of desperation.

You may say that they can pick and chose their clients, but I'm sure there are some who are not able to afford that luxury.

But the crux of my position (outside of the tax implications etc) is I am unsure how I feel about blanketly saying that a person shouldn't be able to use their body in exchange for rent if they are happy enough to do so.

I'm certainly not advocating for it, but it does open up a lot of moral and ethical questions that I have never considered before.

blanch152 · 04-08-2023 12:02PM

Is this not covered under existing legislation such as the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017, Section 25 which states:

"A person who pays, gives, offers or promises to pay or give a person (including a prostitute) money or any other form of remuneration or consideration for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity with a prostitute shall be guilty of an offence."

Free rent would be included under the definition of "consideration". So sex for free rent is already illegal. This appears to be nothing more than politicians virtue-signalling and claiming to be doing something about the rental situation.

Overheal · 04-08-2023 12:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938721#Comment_120938721

You may say that they can pick and chose their clients, but I'm sure there are some who are not able to afford that luxury.

that’s not a luxury that’s the whole ballgame. This whole argument/thread hinges on consent.

I’m glad you are exploring new questions and dilemmas

Become Death · 04-08-2023 12:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938746#Comment_120938746

It certainly is eye opening.

When I think I have settled on a scenario that I agree with and feel that my mind is decided as to which side I agree with, another and opposite thought creeps in.

Very interesting topic, because realistically it is either right or wrong, but there are a lot of variables to consider, some of which contradict themselves.

04-08-2023 12:26PM

I just googled NAMBLA.

I wish I hadn't. I'm probably on some list now.

Overheal · 04-08-2023 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938819#Comment_120938819

Nah you’ll be fine

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQYK_flETP5PND64rpxGlVlleegmvq2cA

Gregor Samsa · 04-08-2023 12:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938731#Comment_120938731

No, it's not already covered by Section 25 of the Act.

Section 25 specifically only applies to payments, offers or promised for "engaging in sexual activity with a prostitute".

Now, some will jump in and say that accepting free rent for sex makes one a prostitute. They miss the point.

The new legislation would make seeking, offering or advertising a free rent for sex arrangement to anyone an offence.

One is not a prostitute merely because someone else has offered them "consideration" for sex.

newmember2 · 04-08-2023 01:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938614#Comment_120938614

it’s by definition done for a power imbalance, a great one, a place to sleep, light, heat, a private residence.

This is a ridiculous line of argument. Power imbalance??

Every economic transaction comes with a 'power imbalance'. It's the principal of supply and demand. Get a grip. Any landlord renting out a property during a housing shortage is operating from a point of power imbalance regardless if they're asking for sex or money.

Going by many posts on this thread, I'm being 'coerced' into paying my rent.

Become Death · 04-08-2023 01:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939011#Comment_120939011

Thats also a good point.

It's very subjective. But also very real.

I mean, in these scenarios, you could consider that a person who is sexually attractive holds power to choose to withhold sex. You could argue that someone who has money holds power as to whether they can use their money to get something which usually wouldn't be available.

Take the example of someone like Anna Nicole Smith. Who held the power there? The millionaire she married, or her?

I know some people think that this topic is very cut and dried (I thought so myself), but when you actually think about it, there is a lot more to consider.

04-08-2023 01:37PM

I’d say the rte show caused embarrassment for some , the fellas just came accross as lonely incels with no skills

04-08-2023 01:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939146#Comment_120939146

He held the power , hence he died old and she young

blanch152 · 04-08-2023 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938912#Comment_120938912

You are incorrect.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25

"a person (including a prostitute)"

It applies to any person, so giving consideration (free rent) to any person, not just a prostitute is already an illegal activity.

All I can see here is virtue signalling. Enforce the already existing law.

Sex for free rent: Why is this so wrong between consenting adults?

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