Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Former Former Former · 03-08-2023 07:20PM

I think it's pretty apparent that, rightly or wrongly, Frawley is there primarily, if not exclusively, as a 10.

Must love hardship · 03-08-2023 07:24PM

Yep 4th choice 10 who can fill a gap 12,13,15.

Realistically sexton will get injured at some stage if ireland go deep in the tournament and frawley may end up getting a call up

Dubinusa · 03-08-2023 08:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120935786#Comment_120935786

O'Sullivan didn't kick on. It's disappointing. Loughman I believe, will be heavily involved after the world cup.

fitz · 03-08-2023 09:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120935527#Comment_120935527

I'm still angry about that tackle into touch in the last warm up game against England that ruled David Wallace out of the 2011 World Cup and ultimately ended up forcing him into retirement.

I don't really care what happens in these games as long as we get through them injury free.

typhoony · 03-08-2023 09:58PM

I see the Coombes media bandwagon has started to try to justify why he should be going to the WC. I can see a player from one of the other provinces being hard done by in a Toneresque move

phog · 03-08-2023 10:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936754#Comment_120936754

I'd be outraged if I was you

03-08-2023 11:05PM

Interesting team, very powerful and dynamic back 5.

Hard to know what to make of that starting front row. Herring has been terrific for Ireland, keen to see how he goes. O'Toole had a good six nations and has developed a nice carrying game so him and Kilcoyne will have plenty of opportunities to play to their strengths with that pack around them. I think Kilcoyne is coming off at half time so Healy gets a decent run out, probably similar for Furlong.

Backs also interesting. We've a good few big athletic forwards and then you add in Stockdale, Henshaw and McCloskey and all of a sudden you've quite a few fairly abrasive characters out there.

Casey is going to have some platform, should have a field day and Crowley getting the nod suggests the coaches have liked what they've seen of late both in camp and in the concluding season.

Earls will get the century yet!

Neil3030 · 03-08-2023 11:54PM

Nothing builds cohesion like empathy.

Baird will be a better lock, having played in the back row.

Doris will be a better 8, understanding what the 7 goes through.

And so on.

Downlinz · 03-08-2023 11:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936754#Comment_120936754

I would say given how quickly Toner hit expiration after 2019 and how Kleyn has been one of the most consistent second rows in Europe season after season that is now being recognised by the Springboks that this isn't a take that has aged well.

Joe was ruthless but correct in choosing Kleyn as the superior player and the only media bandwagon was from Luke Fitzgerald and others sticking up for their buddy claiming it as some kind of injustice.

AbusesToilets · 04-08-2023 12:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937219#Comment_120937219

Kleyn did absolutely nothing that WC, and Toner was still in good enough form. It was a **** decision

leakyboots · 04-08-2023 12:32AM

It really wasn't

TRC10 · 04-08-2023 01:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936754#Comment_120936754

I'd say the most frustrating thing for them, is the fact that it's a Connacht player getting picked ahead of him. So they can't blame it on Leinster bias.

TRC10 · 04-08-2023 01:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120935890#Comment_120935890

I'd be fairly certain Frawley is primarily covering 10 on Saturday. Of course, if injuries force it, he could go to 15, but I'd say they'd put Stockdale at 15 before Frawley.

Downlinz · 04-08-2023 02:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937253#Comment_120937253

He wasn't selected outside of the tier 2 games to Russia and Samoa which we won comfortably. Once we lost to Japan the entire nerve and ambition from the Irish coaching staff went out the window.

Former Former Former · 04-08-2023 06:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936754#Comment_120936754

I hadn't heard a peep about him, but in the same way people are always banging on about the Dublin meeeeja, it doesn't make an iota of difference to selection. No one is being picked or dropped based on what is said on a podcast.

Coombes and Prendergast are likely fighting over one jersey. I don't think either of them can feel hard done by if they lose out to the other one.

ersatz · 04-08-2023 08:10AM

I

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937387#Comment_120937387

Putting stocktake at 15 seems like a mad idea to me, but who knows. A big part of Farrell’s success has been the flexibility he has brought to selection and to positions. But With stockdale I’d be more cautious, his form tanked for years after his breakout and maybe he needs a solid day out on the wing. But a successful cameo at full back…these are the calls that will define Farrell’s legacy over the next few months.

Frawley at ten is another of those. He could end up at ten in a World Cup knock out which is insane considering he’s not locked in by any measure at Leinster. The coaches are defo making the most of this Italy match.

Podge_irl · 04-08-2023 08:43AM

Toner v Kleyn was a completely irrelevant decision ultimately, though Toner wasn't hard done by. The idea that some media narrative will get Coombes into the squad is silly.

Podge_irl · 04-08-2023 08:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937627#Comment_120937627

Stockdale played at 15 in the 2020 6N, in that weird period between Kearney and Keenan. I don't recall it being a roaring success, though he wasn't in great form at the time.

Brief_Lives · 04-08-2023 08:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936754#Comment_120936754

I wouldn't call it a bandwagon. I think he is definitely going. I would rather see him play in the later warm-ups than the earlier one.

Any players that don't make the plane and are still "within a shout" for the later warm up games, is a waste of time by the irish selectors.

Ireland need someone with his ridiculous power anyway.

Podge_irl · 04-08-2023 08:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937710#Comment_120937710

We are not short of power in the backrow and whoever goes as the 6th backrow is never going to see any proper gametime absent injuries anyway so we hardly "need" him.

Former Former Former · 04-08-2023 09:26AM

Coombes' potential issue is that he's an eight who can cover six, which is exactly what Doris and Conan are.

Similarly, the ability of Baird and Beirne to switch between lock and 6 might count against Prendergast.

If Farrell wants more options elsewhere, we might well see only five back-rows travel, i.e. POM, VDF, Conan, Doris and AN Other - I'd have Baird in pole position for that as of now.

snotboogie · 04-08-2023 09:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937520#Comment_120937520

Really? Coombes is far superior offensive player, noticably his carrying in the tight, try scoring and passing are way ahead. If you are looking at where Pendergast has the edge it's marginal; he's quicker so a bit more effective in the loose, he has a better eye for poaching and is probably a slightly better tackler. However Farrell isn't a huge fan of Coombes, I suspect because he has a tendency to drift out of less important games, something that is tolerated at Munster because he is their talisman and the moments that he is switched on more than make up for it but it's not a trait Farrell wants in a rotational back row. However that said, given the season Coombes had I think he absolutely would have the right to feel aggrieved if he isn't selected, he is by some distance the more talented player and if you are looking for someone to come off the bench against South Africa or in a quarter final, Coombes offers a lot more than Prendergast.

CONSI · 04-08-2023 09:52AM

With the weather thats forecast I'd take that bet

ionadnapóca · 04-08-2023 10:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937387#Comment_120937387

Things I never want to see again:

Stockdale at 15
Earls at 15
Henshaw at 15
Earls at 13 (he did fine in break glass with ball v Wales 6N '20)

Frawley to my mind would be the logical choice to replace JOB at 15.

Although I can also see the logic in moving Crowley to 15.

e.g. First Choice 23

XV: Keenan; Hansen, Ringrose, Aki, Lowe.

Bench: 22.Crowley or Byrne 23.Aki/Henshaw

Still a Q's of who from the first choice 23 is the FB cover?

A. Hansen and move Ringrose to 14?

or

B. Crowley in at 15?

Personally, Crowley is simply a better player than Ross Byrne and would also provide better 15 cover.

Frawley: 4th choice 10, 4th choice 12, 4th choice 13, 4th/(3rd) choice 15 - Still could get into WC squad as 15th Back (18 Forwards)

sydthebeat · 04-08-2023 10:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937710#Comment_120937710

if we needed a player to come off the bench to get us some hard go forward carrying, we couldnt really get a better option than coombes. His power in that final 5 meter is also pretty much "top of the class" in this irish squad. For that i think he will travel.

sydthebeat · 04-08-2023 10:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937962#Comment_120937962

the weathers going to be pretty much perfect for rugby

certainly doesn't do italy any favours

Former Former Former · 04-08-2023 10:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937940#Comment_120937940

I would agree with every word of that... but still wouldn't be shocked to see Coombes miss out. I posted above, he's filling a role that's already taken by Doris and Conan, so unless he's moved ahead of the latter, he might be surplus to requirements.

TRC10 · 04-08-2023 11:06AM

I think it's fairly evident that as things stand, Coombes isn't making the final squad.

Clegg · 04-08-2023 11:30AM

Really looking forward to seeing how Joe McCarthy goes. There's no young forward in the country with as much potential as him. Well rounded skillset, but has the physicality that you rarely see in Irish locks. It's a shame he was injured for so much of last season.

Jump_In_Jack · 04-08-2023 12:27PM

I think the decisions to leave out Treadwell in favour of Henderson, McCarthy and Beirne, Osborne in favour of McCloskey and Henshaw, Coombes in favour of Conan, Baird and Prendergast doesn't bode well for them, unless they end up starting against England.

I would expect a full 23 to be selected against Engand, barring Sexton and any injuries.

I think it's still possible that Henshaw is first choice 12 but Aki will start against England. He is also second choice 13 so it makes sense to test him out there.

My guess if they wanted to go full-strength for England would be:

Porter, Sheehan, Furlong,

Beirne, Ryan,

O'Mahony, Doris, Van der Flier,

Gibson-Park, R Byrne,

Lowe, Aki, Ringrose, Hansen,

Keenan.

R: Kelleher, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, Conan, Murray, Crowley, Henshaw.

They could easily start Bealham or maybe Coombes.

Makes it interesting in that they normally mix up the team a lot, but here they seem to have gone for the second string for Italy, plus a few guys on the bench or being tested out of position.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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