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The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,659 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Coupled with the usual cloud shouting about any new championship formats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    that poster either has a short memory or wasn't paying enough attention to this year's championship. Round 3 of the group stage was very similar to the last round of NFL with plenty of twist and turns. 3 of the Prem quarter finals decided on fine margins that's more than a decent start for a new format and once they fix they scheduling next year we should have more competitive Quarter finals.

    Can't see past Dublin,Kerry winning this weekend. I'd always side with the underdog plus kerry,Dublin have won enough already so best of luck to Monaghan and Derry hopefully they give it their best shot and sees where it takes them.

    Post edited by Always_Running on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Jesus if you’re shouting for Kerry because Dublin have won enough I don’t know what to say



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    Going into the AI semi final last year Derry was scoring on average 22 points per match and conceding 15. What they conceded against Galway was on par with the average (2-8) but was well below their scoring average with a mere 1-6 scored in the semi final and in no small part to the way Galway set up.

    If Kerry defend like they did against Tyrone It could be struggle for Derry to get close to their average score again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    It's all about wining and if Derry can win playing the system they have well bring it on, Dublin came up with this system, keep ball and we're right good at it, changed the game and winning loads of Alireland titles, great team, looking forward to weekend like all sport you never know what could happen and if it does end up Kerry and dublin in the final let's hope its like 78 when an old great Dublin team hand over to a younger great Kerry team.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    To be fair (as they say on Boards), there wasn't much in the way of opposition in 1978. And Kerry got a good rest between games.

    18 June Kerry 4-27 Waterford 2-8.

    16 July Kerry 3-14 Cork 3-7

    13 August Kerry 3-11 Roscommon 0-08

    24 September Kerry 5-11 Dublin 0-09. Dublin scored just 2 points in the second half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,564 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The big difference between Kerry and Dublin and most other teams is the way they probe the blanket defence. It's not a case of continuous hand passing outside the 45. Kerry have been excellent in the last two games at probing the BD. They move the ball a lot by kick passing down into a corner then move the ball rapidly back out kick pass across the front of the BD and into the other corner.

    The purpose of this is to tire defenders moving to prevent a runners getting a pass or allowing a scoring forward a decent scoring chance.

    Derry have the best BD and Kerry may struggle with it on Sunday.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭Tomaldo


    No way, I'm still haunted by that Mike Sheehy goal. Cullen puts his toe under the ball, Kellegher naively hands the ball to Sheehy and the rest is history. We were going for 3 in a row and cruising, 6 1 up at one stage. I'm worried that I feel as over confident against Monaghan as I did that day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    The blanket Louth and Tyrone used against Kerry can be best described as one filled with holes. In round 2 of the group stages the Cork blanket was harder to score against and create for Kerry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Be quite odd if Dublin and Derry got to the final. I think it was just over 20 years ago since the last 2 division 2 teams made a final.

    As a dub, if we get to the final I’d rather kerry, not because Dublin would necessarily beat them but I want to see a good final. I know there is a lot of apologists for the putrid blanket defence, but it’s just a disaster for entertainment value. Anti football is not good for the game on any level.

    I get why teams do it and it’s a legitimate tactic, but like the keepers roaming (who doesn’t want to see a roaming keeper get badly caught out?) the field, I think it’s awful stuff to Watch. I’m not interested in watching teams struggle to break it down, I just want to see it beaten badly so teams that play it are punished.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,334 ✭✭✭HBC08


    I think you'll get your wish on sat.

    I have a feeling kerry will destroy Derry.That kind of muck football will get a limited team so far but they'll never win anything with it.

    Kerry by 8.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Treble double


    That's the thing about cagey defensive football it will get you to a certain level but not the ultimate prize as the old saying goes fortune favours the brave. Armagh were a breath of fresh air last year, they have some fine forwards and they kicked the ball direct, they got some amazing scores, instead of building on it they decided they needed to get more defensively savvy and were beaten by what I would consider less talented teams in Derry and Monaghan without ever firing a shot. Galway not getting to the quarter finals also dented the quality of the latter stages of this championship. It very hard to get enthused about these semi finals. A Dublin Kerry final would be box office, but there are no guarantees in sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Donegal says Hello!

    How teams set up is entirely up to them, within the rules, and it's snobbish and unfair in us to decide the job of teams is to solely provide entertainment to the masses. Are lads to be fed to the lions gladiator style, a gallant death while we give them the thumbs up or thumbs down style?

    What's the ultimate prize? I'd imagine for Derry, if you said 2 years ago, you'd have 2 Ulster titles and successive semi final slots it would be defined as success, no?

    Like with all of these things, it's about balance. The only thing I don't like about top teams playing defensive style football is that club teams copy the low hanging aspects of it and those parts trickle down,eg. the 14 behind the ball and mind numbing possession will be aped by junior club teams but the fast transitions and 14 attackers moving at pace won't.

    It's up to congress and the rule makers to change it enforce the existing rules of they want to change the game as a spectacle. Other field games like soccer, rugby etc change and tweak their roles constantly to shape the games in response to coaching trends, which always tend to be negative. We talk about it endlessly but do nothing, so until that culture changes then buckle up.

    If you want mindless entertainment, go see Mission Impossible in the cinema!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Will the wet conditions have much of an impact I wonder, will it make the handling tricky and interfere with the intricate hand passing in tight areas?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 37,241 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    I hope both Dublin and Kerry win well this weekend. Defensive football can be awful to watch. The weather will play a part, particularly today, and it will probably take a bit longer for Dublin to pull away.

    Dublin by 7, Kerry by 10



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Donegal says Hello!

    Are you talking about Donegal 2012 ?

    If you are then you are mistaken if you think they played muck football.

    Donegal 2012 were as expansive a team as any we have seen since.

    They were well capable of both defending and scoring at a high rate.

    People always seem to see them in terms of the 2011 SF that Dublin beat them 9 to 6.

    But McGuiness learned then that you won't win anything that way, so he adapted and changed, and delivered a completely different animal in 2012.

    If you are not taking about Donegal 2012 then ignore all that I wrote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,320 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I was looking out the window there and gave a 'jayus..' looking at them threatening clouds. If it is a dirty day, making it even cagier will suit Monaghan's game - and Conor McManus to throw on in the last 20 minutes.

    If there was four ahead for Dublin or less in it with 20 minutes to go I would be a bit worried as Dub supporter. Anything more than four ahead for Dublin with 20 to go I wouldn't see Monaghan coming back - given their style of play.

    From a Monaghan point of view they would want to keep it as tight/cagey messy for as long as possible. Dublin would be looking for the opposite build up a lead - kill the game quick.

    But I had a good look at recent Monaghan v Dublin results from the league - Monaghan relegated Dublin two years ago and there has been plenty of close games etc

    Derry play similar style to Monaghan but I would argue Derry are even better at it, but on the other hand Kerry have got smarter and copied the 'peak Dublin' tactics. Wear a team down chip away keep the score board ticking over and 'no risk' football.

    If Kerry or Dublin get a decent lead in either match it is game over as a contest I think.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,334 ✭✭✭HBC08


    If you think Donegal in 2012 were playing what Derry play now you don't know anything about football.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,430 ✭✭✭Seadin


    I would like to see Monaghan and Derry in the final. They have won hardly nothing between them collectively in terms of football All Irelands. Kerry and Dublin have won it so many times. How would some people on here want to see one of them winning it for another time makes you wonder the reasoning behind that? If it's because they play free flowing football, well that is now not the case in this modern era of football. Dublin and Kerry are also masters of playing defensive and negative football when the need for it occurs.


    Sam needs to go around to the other counties that aren't as successful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Treble double


    Ya agree about Donegal, they upped the anti defensively but when in possession they attacked with pace and intent. The latest incarnation which Derry are the poster boys for involves sucking all the life out of the contest, long long bouts of possession in non attacking areas where its common to see a player standing still and soloing on the spot and the dreaded hand up in the air from a player with the ball to signal to his comrades that we won't be attacking with this possession we will be faffing around in our own half with a necklace of mind numbing passes taking a breather. The most depressing sight in modern football is when their is a huge crowd baying with excitement before a key game and then one of these negative teams wins possession from the throw in and holds onto it in a non threatening area of the field for multiple minutes reducing the crowd to silence, it an amazing achievement when you think about it. I was in the camp of its all part of the game evolving and in all sports its smart and progressive to hold onto possession. But it was pointed out to me that Gaelic footballs problem is that it is just too easy to hold onto possession and there is no skill involved, it's like a child's game of piggy in the middle and the tackle in the game is not properly defined. The difficulty of holding onto possession in soccer makes it a skill to do so. I would be in favour of the Aussie Rules style tackle, once you are wrapped you lose possession, that would cut out all this nonsense and bring a bit of jeopardy and excitement back into the game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,320 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I remember Christy Toye coming on and destroying Dublin in 2014 as well, Dublin looked like they were going to coast it at the start. Getting long range points for fun. If Donegal were a solely 'defensive team' they would never have got to the 2014 final either. When Donegal broke forwards on the counter they were lethal.

    Donegal scored 3 goals in that AISF - Dublin got no goals and 17 points

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donegal-surge-flattens-dublin-in-huge-semi-final-upset/30551190.html

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,320 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Sport is not like a primary school sports day where 'everyone is a winner' - sport is cruel in reality. Under pressure weaknesses are magnified especially by the better opponents.

    Titles have to be well won - more often than not. Tactically, physically and mentally everything has to be spot on.

    In the quarter finals Kerry had a handy game against a Tyrone side who let themselves down. Dublin beat a Mayo overall squad who was better on paper - but imploded mentally

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,430 ✭✭✭Seadin


    Dublin and Kerry will always win All Irelands. Derry and Monaghan won't so when they have a chance of getting there I'd like to see them doing the business. I don't care what way they go about their business once it is within the rules and won fairly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,564 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think a lot of people forget that up until the early noughties the Northern teams played expansive football.

    Tyrone bought an element of strong defences I to it as did Donegal. However both teams when they won AI had good attacking structures

    It was when Kerry in 2014 and Dublin after that strengthened there defensive structures that the present blanket defence at all costs arose.

    The win for Tyrone in 2021 seemed to spur on thinking that ultra defences could win AI's without decent attacking structures

    I agree with the @theoneeyedman the transfer of it into club football has been abborant and lazy coaching. It's nearly creeping into U14&12's. However you are seeing some club coaching remaining very open. A club with decent footballers will still overcome that system

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭ArnoldJRimmer


    Criticising defensive football and then saying the championship suffered by not having one of the most defensive teams in the country in the quarters? Galway were blessed with the draw they got last year, they were not missed this year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Treble double


    I think Galway above anyone else have the forwards to upset Dublin/Kerry. Yes they have tightened up drastically defensively. But outside the above two they have the most naturally talented forwards in the country. Shane Walshs form falling through the floor did for them this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    If watching a game of football is causing you to suffer from depression, you should get some help. And if you think this malady is affecting massive crowds, you are mistaken. They keep turning up in massive numbers for the next game and the one after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Love to see Monaghan stick some goals past Cluxton, always looks a bit arrogant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Dublin keeping all their players in their own half.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭technocrat


    And here comes the customary booing from the hill!



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