Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Maby plenty if no family to support ….no mortgage ….no debt etc etc 60 cows would of reared and educated a family once ….not now though

I have six children. It's all what your used too. Give up the old cocaine.

There's something wrong if you can't survive on 90000. Give up those "good cows" and get a few handy ones

There is a decent living off anything over about 50 cows where you are not stocked much above 200kgsN/HA. With numbers like that you can have attention to detail.

A farmer able to push over the 6K litres without going into band 3. No fancy toys no LC fairly decent tractor. Able to write down tax against the spouse that is working car expenses, not in a company set up, as kids hit 14-15 use them to shelter such income. Knew if one family where this happened and the cash was withdrawn every week to do the shopping.

At 60-70 cows you are starting to hit the comfort zone if the spouse has a decent job. The farmer not ran off there feet so able to do the school runs.

If they have the leeway to to maximize calf and cull value a bit this helps as well.

Ifs …buts …navy’s ….tgeres always mantinance around farm ..unforeseens ….contractors doing lots work which needs income generated to do so …50/60 cows on your scenario above with high 50s base Yeadh ….same scenario at current price and costs and throw in mortgage ,farm debt and any legacy payments to family etc no chance ….I say this as someone with a modest farm just under 100 cows …have debt ..have legacy payments ..mortgage and kids and wife who works ….don’t have a very extravagant life but happy enough ……I’m lucky in that most farm debt nearly done if starting again now with current legislation etc and money I’d have to spend to comply couldn’t do it …reality

Mist of these farms are not in the hot dairy area's of Cork or the East coast. The still have access rental land at 200-250 /acre There was a rental standoff locally between a dairy farmer and the land owner he was renting 30-40 acres near him from.

He had been paying 180/ acre, land owner wanted 400. The Dairy farmer got it in the end for 250 according to the PRA I was told. If he was renewing the lease now it would be back nearer 200/acre as heat has gone out of the market locally over the last three months.

Locally most of the dairy farmers are at about a cow to 1.5 acres between owned and rented. Yes there is a few dairy only with all calves sold. Cow numbers are from about 50 up.

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, alot of expanded farms where scenarios where father/son/daughter operations needed to go from 80 cows to 140 plus to generate two incomes, and ground was rented, our existing ground used to facilitate this, harping on now that these farms will be grand going back to 70-80 cows when two incomes are needed is bulls**t to put it mildly....

Combine this with a lot of these farms maybe having been getting a nice tidy sfp of 30k plus a year, now looking at under 20k and sliding to closer 15k by 2025 its a perfect storm

Locally most of the dairy farmers are at about a cow to 1.5 acres between owned and rented. Yes there is a few dairy only with all calves sold. Cow numbers are from about 50 up.

That would be the case locally here too and quite representative. It seems to be more the lads up the country and further east that lost the head altogether.

You could give some lads 200 cows and they couldn't live off them. That was always the case.

Who promoted that?

Was this not the whole Greenfields scenario along with rental land. Outwintering pad ( then changed to cubicles) roofed open parlour (worked a treat with the beast from the east), no meal feeding. As George Best was told ''where did it all go wrong''.

IFJ were definately prompting it. There was a lad from Galway with 130+ cows on it 8-10 years ago and a couple lads from Cork. We discussed it on this forum 5+ years ago.

10 years ago the labour solution for second and third units was an Eastern European couple given accommodation in an house and paid minimum wage to manage the 48 hour week rule. The theory was the male would do most of the work but his spouses hours would cover the legal requirements. We had lads trying to justify at the time charging them 800/month rental for the house as it was 3-4 bedroom house( which they really did not need)

The upshot was when most learned a bit of English they found work elsewhere.

The man was asking about working full-time or could you stay at home on sixty cows.

I didn't know he lost all leave of his faculties when quota's went and is overstocked and overpaying for rented land. (He may own what he has and is running a proper farm).

How would any normal household live on a wage say a council worker on 45000. When some People here can't rear a family on 90000. People have to watch there out goings that's all I was saying

Already am, between cosecure, blocks, dry cow minerals, extra protected minerals in the meal, the above works okay once molybdenum levels are under 3 mg/kg, and iron levels are low but when your dealing with this stuff it's just damage limitation only I have maize to dilute the 1st cut with for the winter I'd be screwed

On the above sample copper to molybdenum ratio is around 1.5 like i said its poison

As I've said previously, the whole industry is built on slave labour. There is no easy way. Father and son only last so long unfortunately.

I was in a partnership with my parents for a while but my parents were only half committed to be honest. The tax consultants and solicitors were the only people that benefitted from it.

There is 80 to 100 hours a week work on most farms. That's 2 labour units and if that can't be paid then it is unviable without a bit of slavery. That's farming...

Are you blind as well as deaf

Been put out of a 65 acre block here of wet Midlands ground at the foot of the slieve blooms by a tillage man, he's apparently giving 370 a acre and giving all the sfp back, space for nature on this block is 20% too so farmable ground is nearer 50 acres, was giving 220 a acre for 2 cuts of silage, no maps etc....

Your really taking the piss now 200/ha give over

Yes.

Half the lies aren't true you know.

Years upon years of hearsay..

The Irish ingrained mentality towards rules is "how do I get around that".

Years of evolution of this repetitive mantra manifests on line with everything being the fault of everyone else's advise.

You won't find a single document advising farmers to expand without facilities. Woodchip pads we're considered a viable option which worked as a viable holding tactic to get in place another option, but in no case was contradiction of regulation ever put forward.

Any farmers I know that expanded did so in line with much if not most of teagasc advise. They have built serious businesses, making eyewatering profits and will steer through any upcoming regulation changes with ease such is their financial strength.