Marty Morrissey Tax on Car

DUBLINIRL · 07-07-2023 7:01am #1

Could someone explain the tax treatment for Marty's car?

https://www.thesun.ie/tv/10996190/marty-morrissey-rte-car-loan-tax-clarity-grey-area/

wally1990 · 07-07-2023 7:29am

Currently, Benefit in Kind is only on Employer provided non cash assets eg cars but Renault weren't his employer and there isn't a "tax rule" that states benefit in kind is payable on third party provided assets/perks

Side note : It's a weird one, because benefit in kind is deducted from your salary by your employer by adding the perk to your wages and deducting the tax

But again, Renault aren't his employer so they wouldn't have done this

I'm not sure if a tax bill will even come of this story

But it does open up a loop hole in the tax system

cdeb · 07-07-2023 7:33am

If Renault were providing him a car, would there not have been an obligation on then to put Marty on payroll and return BIK that way?

After all, they're effectively paying him (that's what BIK means)

wally1990 · 07-07-2023 7:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816574#Comment_120816574

"Logically yes" but there isn't anything in the tax law for that , weird I know

Nermal · 07-07-2023 7:41am

Where's the loophole? This is income. It's non-cash, but still income.

It's up to Marty to calculate the monetary value of the use of the car (just ask what it would cost to lease it) and declare it himself.

doc22 · 07-07-2023 7:43am

It's taxable, it just depends under what banner

Third party benefits https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/benefit-in-kind-for-employers/other-benefits/third-party-benefits.aspx .

Could marty be seen as an employee of Renault and Car use wa his payment.

CAT- for use of car

It might have been Renault rather then Marty that pulled the use of the car too.

mcgragger · 07-07-2023 7:44am

Who paid the road tax, insurance and NCT ?

blackbox · 07-07-2023 7:45am

Did he hand back a 5 year old car or did he get a new car every year?

ebbsy · 07-07-2023 7:46am

What this has done is given the Revenue another avenue to look down ( i.e. vehicles) when they go in to do their trawl.

5 years...loads of back tax and interest and penalties to be hoovered up there.

doc22 · 07-07-2023 7:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816574#Comment_120816574

They weren't paying him so there was no money to take any tax from

cdeb · 07-07-2023 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816619#Comment_120816619

That's a good point in fairness. I suppose that puts the responsibility back on Marty to account for it in his own tax return?

(I don't buy wally's loophole argument I'm afraid)

apogee87 · 07-07-2023 8:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058304026/marty-morrissey-tax-on-car

This is the best PR job i ever seen. The story is now about Marty's car, a few grand for slippers and some events none of which i agree with.

However the real story is likely billions wasted on overpaid presenters, managers that are unaccountable, i heard a manager saying this was affecting her mental health so she should go to the doctor and take sick leave. The real storyis is now a side-show as this all about things that are pretty regular commercial arrangements, like company cars etc. To me all of this diverting from the real story. Whatever minister who is in charge of this department should be resigning, also all of the board out. Then we start the review... But no we will take several months to have the review and it will quietly fade from public view with the help of PR spin.

BTW i expect Tubs may be back on the radio in Sept. However RTE will likely offer him a nice package to disappear. it is widely accepted that he did nothing wrong so they cannot sack him and he has a contract i expect. At the end of the day we all get what we deserve...

cdeb · 07-07-2023 8:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816619#Comment_120816619

Actually, it appears Revenue have thought of that here.

"The tax due on a benefit can be more than your employee's pay. You also might not be able to deduct the full amount of tax in one pay period.

In this case, you must pay the full tax deductible for this period to the Collector-General. This amount will be reflected in your monthly statement.

You should arrange for your employee to repay the difference to you.

If your employee does not repay the tax to you, you should treat the outstanding amount as a benefit."

I told ya · 07-07-2023 8:33am

Case 4 Schedule D might cover this. A distant memory of how it works.

MM had an obligation to disclose the use of the car, calculate the benefit and include it in his Form 11.

Hiding behind not being an employee of the car supplier won't be accepted by Revenue. Interest and penalties will be the killer.

Trigger Happy · 07-07-2023 8:41am

Would Renault have had any obligation to declare this 'ad hoc loan arrangement' to the taxman as they are essentially paying someone, via use of car, for services rendered?

I wonder what other ad-hoc arrangements will come to light in the coming weeks.

Furze99 · 07-07-2023 8:49am

Renault Ireland were for sure paying for the car or cars as a distributor. And writing the cost of these off against sales to garages etc.

They seem to hand this car or cars then to Marty and had no direct payment from him but instead services rendered.

Just another twist on the 'Barter' arrangement which stinks of tax avoidance.

Henry Ford III · 07-07-2023 8:52am

It's a non cash benefit in lieu of pay. Of course it's taxable.

magicbastarder · 07-07-2023 9:09am

his statement said "As I hadn’t sought a fee, Renault offered me the use of a car. I accepted this offer."

this is clearly a statement that he took the car because he wasn't being paid. taking a car is being paid.

GerardKeating · 07-07-2023 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816619#Comment_120816619

They were paying him. the "payment" was the use of the car.

Not sure what card he had, but daily card hire starts at €50+ a day, so a "free car hire" is €7,500+ "income" per year.

cdeb · 07-07-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817006#Comment_120817006

I think the point was more that there was no cash salary from which to deduct BIK. If you have a payslip with just BIK, you'll end up with a negative nett amount - hence "no money to take any tax from".

But it seems Revenue have a rule in place for that, as per the link I posted.

The value of a car as BIK would be based on its open market value, not any sort of comparison with hire car costs.

Henry Ford III · 07-07-2023 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817119#Comment_120817119

Liability is one thing. How it gets collected is another.

I have no doubt there's a tax liability.

cdeb · 07-07-2023 10:07am

Well that's where my link in post #13 probably comes in.

It looks like it's possible Renault could have to gross up the charge, which would have Renault (not Marty) on the hook for twice as much tax. I think there's a similar policy in place if a company makes a nett pay to an employee without deducting tax (for whatever daft reason) - the onus is on the employer to gross it up instead.

magicbastarder · 07-07-2023 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817119#Comment_120817119

would it not come under gift tax possibly? i mean, you can't simply get around tax rules by paying someone in something other than cash.

cdeb · 07-07-2023 10:13am

Can companies give a gift to individuals though? I would have thought any payment from company to individual would come under payroll tbh. (Even the Small Gift Exemption is technically payroll, in that it's exempted from payroll taxes specifically)

But maybe it's another angle for Revenue to go with if required.

07-07-2023 10:13am

I'd have thought CAT applies, with the first €3,000 of value being under the Small Gift Exemption?

However Marty should have charged a fee for his appearance, so the car value could be seen as income. Sch D Case IV as mentioned above would cover this instance.

No VAT invoice supplied by Marty to Renault. I'm fairly certain I remember seeing something in VATCA about barter transactions needing to be accounted for VAT purposes.

How soon will Revenue send a compliance intervention to Marty I wonder?

ahnowbrowncow · 07-07-2023 10:15am

I wonder if Renault were paying VAT on the provision of this vehicle, as would be required. I'm presuming they were providing a new vehicle each year and Marty wasn't driving around in a 2017 Renault Clio.

07-07-2023 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816619#Comment_120816619

It doesn’t state he wasn’t paid , it was stated payment wasn’t sought

TheChizler · 07-07-2023 10:19am

What do high level GAA, rugby players, and "influencers" do in similar situations? This is a long established custom, there must be a procedure.

2 Wheels Good · 07-07-2023 10:20am

Is this in any way similar to GAA (and now some other sports) stars getting free cars from brands/garages for the year (or holidays back home)?

07-07-2023 10:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816619#Comment_120816619

He was doing work, for them, and got a car.

How is this barter system not classed a payment?

cdeb · 07-07-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817360#Comment_120817360

I think it's been mentioned two or three times now that the likely point of that post was that to add BIK to an otherwise nil payslip would result in a negative nett pay - hence the comment that there was no money to take any tax from.

07-07-2023 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817379#Comment_120817379

Cool. There's plenty of "influencers" and non employees getting perks in excess of small gifts.

There has to be a standard procedure here which is compliant. This smacks of Marty hiding this.

Also this wasn't, exactly, a gift. He did work and got the car for that.

This could get very messy for a number of RTÉ lads

the.red.baron · 07-07-2023 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817379#Comment_120817379

just take it from his car allowance 😂

is it not case that this person the TD was referring to was not Marty

07-07-2023 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817354#Comment_120817354

Influencers receiving "gifts" of clothing, makeup, etc would probably use the small gift exemption where the taxable value is less than €3k. For a car how do you put a value on the annual use of a car, maybe by using capital allowance and OMV calculations?

ahnowbrowncow · 07-07-2023 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817456#Comment_120817456

Influencers don't receive gifts. They're providing a service in exchange for a product. The monetary value of the products should be declared in their income tax return.

That's like a tradesman saying each one their customers were just providing them with cash gifts and they would have zero income to return.

Henry Ford III · 07-07-2023 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817294#Comment_120817294

Don't think so. It's income tax that applies here.

cdeb · 07-07-2023 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817394#Comment_120817394

Well again, that's my post #13, which is Revenue explaining how an employer should account for BIK in the event of a negative payslip.

Economics101 · 07-07-2023 11:08am

Now that M Morrissey's car is public knowledge, and that Revenue are aware of it, why not leave Revenue to sort it out? Revenue are quite capable of enforcing the tax laws without the public piling in with their tuppence worth.

07-07-2023 11:11am

Ok

Quitelife · 07-07-2023 11:13am

The same man owns a number of houses near UL - if you were 5 minutes late with your rent youd be turfed out!

The Rich really are laughing at the rest of us !

ahnowbrowncow · 07-07-2023 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817599#Comment_120817599

No one is preventing Revenue from looking at it or are telling them what to do. This is a forum for discussing tax issues which is exactly what people are doing.

Economics101 · 07-07-2023 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817624#Comment_120817624

You are spouting total rubbish. For a start there is nothing wrong with owning a few houses. For another thing, being 5 minutes late with rent could not warrant any legal eviction,, never mind summary "turfing out".

07-07-2023 11:23am

Serious amount of scutter being presented on this thread as tax treatment.

Why are posters commenting if they dont know the tax rules, and the worst thing is there is no “I think” in their posts instead they phrase it as if they know what they are talking about.

would make you wonder about the amount of false information on this site and how reliable the advice is

Allinall · 07-07-2023 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817679#Comment_120817679

Everything thinks they’re an expert.

dublin49 · 07-07-2023 11:30am

did Timmy Dooley catch the wrong fish,seems to be suggesting that this morning.

Economics101 · 07-07-2023 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817631#Comment_120817631

It's a forum for tax issues as opposed to blovating about an individual's tax affairs.

Quitelife · 07-07-2023 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817645#Comment_120817645

It just sums up Modern Ireland " nothing wrong with owning a few houses "!!

Easy for RTE Staff " to own a few houses " when their getting paid ridicolous salaries & free cars whereas the ordinary punter taxed to the bollixx cant afford to buy his own home !

Economics101 · 07-07-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817725#Comment_120817725

You are a good example of how so much of the RTE discussion has become completely dominated by emotion and envy.

Allinall · 07-07-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817725#Comment_120817725

I’m an ordinary punter and have bought my own home.

Where did I go right?

Quitelife · 07-07-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817753#Comment_120817753

Do you not agree that RTE like Turbidy & Marty are getting paid far too much when the Station is been paid for by the people of the country through license fees ...and they looking to increase the liicensee fees ??

RTE staff are earning ridicolous sums compared to BBC which has 60 Million people to serve unlike our 5 million.

cdeb · 07-07-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817765#Comment_120817765

In fairness, there are plenty of people who can't afford a home. And others owning several homes just drives prices up even more (basic supply and demand). It's not something that you'd imagine has any place in a sustainable society. (Simon Reeve's recent BBC documentaries on the Lake District and Cornwall show the effects of that sort of privilege very starkly, for example)

But it's also a matter for another thread I guess.

Marty Morrissey Tax on Car

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