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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,046 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The real rural Russia is, in many cases, hundreds or thousands of miles from any possible border with the EU. They're not in much of a physical position to be looking over the garden wall. If it's more of a case of hearing about this in the media, they either can do this already, or Putin's got that locked down so tight that it's a non-starter. Besides, the rural populations are so dispersed, so economically depressed and so just concerned with day to day survival that revolution isn't a realistic proposition for them.

    And not only that, but the apparent fetishisation of hardship that Russians, especially rural Russians, engage in means that they'll accept their lot in life with little more than a shrug of the shoulders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,046 ✭✭✭✭briany


    How easily we forget, eh?

    This country got a bit of money and the charity fell right out of it as a result.

    The right wing making in roads in this country is one thing, but the gall of them playing up Ireland's past victimhood out of one side of their mouth, and demonising today's victims with the other.

    It's not even somebody from Nigeria perhaps chancing their arm in this case, but a country that is very evidently getting devastated and having huge amounts of its population displaced by the most terrible of war.

    If there isn't a charitable attitude to that, then there can be little hope, and it's only our arrogance that makes us think that such a rape of a country could never happen to us again where it's us begging for aid, where it's us putting our women and children on a refugee boat to some safer part of the world, not knowing if we'd ever see them again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Yeah I've experienced similar as well. At this stage I know the people who not to broach the subject with. Typically they are what the yanks would describe as "low information voters". Basically people who have no interest in politics but if asked will typically say that they believe that all politicians are corrupt liars. They're already primed to believe the worst and so Russian propaganda plays into that. I have found that trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone on the topic is a frustrating waste of time so I just steer clear of it now.



  • Subscribers Posts: 710 ✭✭✭FlipperThePriest


    The type of people that fall for this guff will usually be diametrically opposed to the general consensus when it comes to any contentious issue of the day. It seems to me that these are people that have pretty **** lives, end up marginalised by society and it's easier to blame society for their grievances rather than take a look inward and shoulder some blame for their life and choices.

    This same attitude then spills into general societal issues and is backed up by their echo chambers online. Covid ballsing up society? That's the government's fault. Immigration problem? Government. Russia invading its neighbour, torturing raping, bombing and killing civilians? Stupid bloody west. They will always go against the grain of society because in their heads, it's society's fault that they have a **** existence. 



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is a particularly virulent strain of "republicanism" (its not real republicanism, I don't know what to call it) that sees it as a point of pride to be against anything that Britain supports and holds an absurd grudge about partition that makes them reject any efforts to enable Ukraine to retake the occupied parts of its country (by making historically illiterate comparisons).

    Its sad to see.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's been my experience that every single one of these types I've encountered is a conspiracy theorist of some stripe. If they were WEF/AntiVax/Bill Gates is sterilising us/Anti Woke/Scamdemic/anti EU/Flat earthers etc before, it follows they're near 100% guaranteed to be a newly minted Russia supporter.

    It's a given. Indeed I would suggest imho it's such a given that Russia has been grooming these disaffected Western fringe groups mostly online for at least 10 years(the Chinese in the mix wouldn't shock me either). They have previous with this as they were doing it throughout Cold War 1. Left wing groups, Right wing groups, peaceniks, anarchists and so on. They were also pushing the oul leftie post modernist stuff too. It wouldn't shock me that they helped push the "Woke" narrative and now push the "Anti Woke" because it suits them now. I mean when you see Americans waving Russian flags because they think they're conservative Christians that hate the Gays... You couldn't make it up. Never mind a host of Africans seemingly keen to invite in another White European Christian empire to screw them over.

    They're certainly using them now. Go on Twitter or Arsebook and if you see conspiracy in their bios/posts they'll also push Russian propaganda. You can tell because read one and you've essentially read them all and you've read what the Kremlin wants them to spin and you to read. It's the same script, with the same pics, the same memes, the same stock responses to open criticism. Now you get some of that from the Ukrainian side, but not nearly so consistently and you have to read a lot more people to get the wider picture and they contradict each other a lot, which is what you'd expect from a normal crowd.

    This was very evident when Prig made his "March of Justice" towards Moscow. The usual voices fell silent, or got very confused, like the rest of us. The Kremlin script hadn't been written yet. The script when it finally came out was enlightening, for me anyway. Putin solved this peacefully. No Russians died(at first. This went stale when it couldn't be denied Russian airmen were killed, so it was ignored). Russia is fully behind Putin. Cue near every one of them posting a video of a bunch of young Russian women singing and dancing to a "I'm Russia" song. With the all too usual "no blacks/fatties/faggots/trannies in that mix". Then it was lots and lots of Putin is loved, with the more ardent arse tonguers near crying over his greatness. It was flat though and they knew it. Then France and riots came along to save the day and they must have jizzed their pants at the lifeline for a new script. With the same pics, the same memes, the same stock responses, from the same people, repeated by morons... Rinse and repeat.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,782 ✭✭✭yagan


    I've met English, Welsh and scots who feel the same way about the British. Maybe the supremist British imperial identity is the problem and not us.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well the Welsh and Scots are British so they're idiots if they think that cause they are every bit as imperial as the English (particularly the Scots, less so the Welsh).

    Nonetheless, its an historical irrelevance in the current context. Its the equivalent of saying "that cop mistreated me so I hope he dies in that school shooting and isn't able to stop it".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭zv2


    @Wibbs "With the same pics, the same memes, the same stock responses, from the same people, repeated by morons"

    Don't you know, humanity has entered the moronocene.

    Post edited by zv2 on

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    There is no doubt that close to100% of those conspiracy theorist types are all in with Russia in this invasion. But I reckon it is creeping if not cascading beyond those types as well. The politically non engaged who will swallow the lazy answer that does not tax their brain too much. They are nearly fully converted at this stage too. Contrarians and edgy types with attitude just love being arsey and taking the Russian view allows them to indulge in and wallow in that. Then you have those who give out about refugees a good lot of them will overlap with a pro Russian viewpoint too. And then there is a good few people who you would just be surprised and shocked to see them taking the Russian line. No other explanation only the internet algorithm has picked them up and has them in a feedback loop of lies.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh I agree, though I would say that a large percentage of those groups you list buy into the conspiracy stuff too. Not flat earth level daftness, but very much the conspiracies around the EU/WEF/Vaxx etc.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    He speaks about how the US helps around the world in times of crisis. Russia and it's parrots try to paint USAs involvement abroad as interfering and bullying. We all know the stereotypical yank as the loud idiot that can't read a map but when they're educated they really strive to be the best




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    100%.

    What you're describing there a network of loosely affiliated groupings who all have 1 thing in common - susceptibility to disinformation. You can see this in action in an Irish context via a little exercise.

    1. First you find a twitter account that is straight up racist. Those are easier to come by these days. If you can't find any then this one is a good example of the type.
    2. Go to either their list of followers or their list of followed accounts and pick another Irish account.
    3. Have a look at their bio and timeline and get a feel for what they are about
    4. Repeat steps 3 & 4, choosing accounts you haven't views already each time

    If you do this for long enough you'll start to notice that the content of the accounts changes but they'll probably be in certain areas:

    • Straight Up racist and xenophobic accounts tweeting race-baiting material. Typical fare are video clips of black people acting aggressively against white people - These accounts are nearly always anonymous
    • More garden variety anti-migrant accounts - sometimes named accounts
    • Catholic Nationalists / Irish Traditionalists (often combinations of Historical info, migrant bashing, religious and anti-abortion content)
    • Anti-vaxxers (Often still tweeting non stop about Covid vaccines and Covid disinformation)
    • More general conspiracy theorists (New World Order, W.E.F, Soros & Gates etc)
    • Lunatic conspiracy theories (Flat Earthers, Elders of Zion, Freemasons, David Icke theories etc)
    • Sinn Fein hate accounts (the anti migrant crowd really despise them - probably because they are populists but they aren't anti-migrant)
    • Irish accounts just retweeting American Conservatives and Brexiteers (lots of pro-Trump content)
    • Climate Change Denial
    • Anti-LGBT
    • Anti-Ukrainian/Zelensky/NATO/EU

    None of these will be distinct categories as any one account will have bits of many of these. The one constant though is the promotion of content that taps into people's cynicism and fears. It's designed to enrage them but also to be retweeted. Quite often this stuff is blatant disinformation but nobody cares. There's a distinct lack of humour on these timelines (Apart from "ha-ha those idiots said we were wrong but look at this" type stuff which isn't really actually humour). It's all Rage & Fear. It's bleak stuff and it's concerning that so many people get sucked into this rabbit hole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,602 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    They also seem to be the type that claim to be against corruption and elite billionaires. But yet are ok with a mafia state.

    I really think a lot of it has to do with how Putin appeals to their inner thug.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭zv2


    A lot of American aggression is aimed at containing Russia and if that's the way it has to be, so be it. Russia has been mass murdering since it came into existence.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭jmreire


    None the less, ethnic Russians are far from popular in the Republics, especially the rural areas. And its universal, there's a sense that over time, Russians have only ever screwed people, and not only backed by, but actively encouraged by Moscow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Inner anarchist.

    Putin is seen as anti everything western so if you're an anarchist in the West he's a possible follow.

    He's the modern day Hitler. No doubt if the guy himself was reborn and shouting the speeches there'd be followers. Putin just tries to make sure he keeps his speeches in a low voice and mellowed for fear of clips being shown simultaneously. But no less evil nonetheless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,383 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Quite a few of them seem to be quite low in intelligence and emotional intelligence. They haven't got the critical thinking skills to work out when they are being lied to or even to try and weigh up an argument by looking at both sides of it. They will often openly sneer at academia and education and dismiss it as part of the lefty, woke "blob" that is out to screw them over and make their lives worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭zv2


    Pizza delivery vehicle (can also deliver mines)


    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    British former Air vice-Marshal Sean Bell (always on Sky News) doesn't sound very hopeful, says Ukraine can't push Russia out of it's territory entirely and it's going to be a case of where the lines are drawn.

    The worry here is, is this actually a war that's winnable from a Ukraine perspective?

    If you explore those questions... you come to the conclusion that this is possibly not a winnable war for Ukraine.... Ukraine will probably never liberate Crimea and the Donbass. Therefore it's more a question of where the line gets drawn on the map as to when the war stops.

    The West has it's domestic priorities <cost of living crisis etc>...we don't have the weapons in our inventory ... we can't keep going like this

    https://imgur.com/xf6whIT



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,040 ✭✭✭Polar101


    I'd have to disagree with the former Air Vice-Marshal. There's no reason why "we" can't keep going like this. There's plenty of weapons and financial support to give - it's up to Ukraine to decide when the war reaches a point where they don't want to keep fighting.

    It's more likely Russia will reach a point where they can't go on first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    The Brits are obsessed with drawing arbitrary lines on maps.

    It never ends well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I haven't seen the interview, but what did he mean 'we don't have the weapons in our inventory'?

    I assume he means the west and not specific to the UK, because the French can still give Ukraine SCALP, Germany Taurus, the US ATACMS and cluster shells. I'm not sure how Russia can hold Crimea if the bridge is destroyed and assuming Ukraine cut off the land bridge (they don't need to take the whole Donbass to do that)

    Even just taking back the front line back to 2022 lines would itself be a win for Ukraine. But I still fail to see how any kind of agreement could ever be reached with Russia while they still occupy Ukrainian land.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    I do like Sean Bell & Michael Clark appraisals

    Russia has a far bigger army the partial mobi never stopped and is getting plenty of weapons from many sources outside, its morale and defences that where not supposed to hold up against western equipment hasn't happen to their credit its a 600km line

    Ukraine as it is will be a basket case if it stays the way it is under constant Russian attriction would it be worth rebuilding? or just use it as a buffer against an uncivilised aggressor who cannot be trusted again.

    West still trades with Russia many big multinationals are not sanctioned so unfortunately we need its 160million to buy out tooth paste and pharmacy products so I think we will see a NK type partition at the end of the year.

    Sadly this is not what I wanted.

    Post edited by dennis72 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    The Russian Army was supposed to take Kyiv in three days. After the annexation of Crimea Putin predicted he could roll over the country in days if he wanted to. Since his army was forced to retreat on multiple fronts with Ukraine using old Soviet relics and captured Russian junk, the Western equipment has been very slow coming and still they're probably not yet fully trained on using it.

    The way things are going Russia is becoming deindustrialised and reduced to scavenging parts from washing machines and buying 1980's Chinese ammunition from Iran. Which parts of the broken Russian Federation are worth salvaging as either independent states, to eventually join the EU, or reincorporated into the nations they were stolen from will be decided at a peace conference. Finland are in early, Poland have claims too.

    Putin will go down in history as the dictator who sent Russia to the same grave as Prussia.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    As this year has shown, a "far bigger army" means absolutely nothing if your army is: badly trained under an inept officer class; reduced to dusting off Cold War equipment hopelessly out of date; logistics utterly reliant on interior rail networks; the country's industrial military complex utterly stalled; troops reduced to hoarding tampons in the absence of medical supplies. Not sure how you think Iranian or Chinese cast offs constitutes "plenty of weapons" either, considering we just had a mutiny based around the problem Russian forces aren't getting the ammunition needed to prosecute this Invasion in the first place. Even with the element of surprise and total aggression, Russia couldn't take Kyiv. A modicum of training and good equipment and Ukraine is slowly suffocating the invasion.

    The counter offensive is slow because in the absence of any tactical advantage whatsoever, Russia has created two lines of defenses flooded with trenches and mines; but progress is happening, just because it's not the lightning attacks of months ago doesn't mean things aren't going on the right direction. Superior armies don't stop dead in their tracks and stick their heads in the sand. This has basically become a siege writ large and Russia can't sit behind its minefields forever. If Ukraine gets more air power, those trenches will look even more quaint and anachronistic.

    And frankly, talking about Ukraine as some "buffer" state of geopolitical convenience is exactly the kind of hubris, regime change indulging Western narrative we're supposed to deride and condemn, ain't it? At least according to the Wallace's of the world; Ukraine not allowed to make its own destiny. We're here because Ukraine didn't want to be a no man's land, but establish more connections with its (wealthy, peaceful) Western neighbours.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    Zelenskyy spoke to Spanish journalists and stated Russia will blow the nuke plant remotely to freeze the war to build up its army I think he could be right and then return to finish the job.

    the west need to go in even for the ramdon missile attacks on civilian are a reason enough its genocide in play and more to come.

    A safe buffer zone in the West where civilian can be safe and a couple of hospitals that can't be bombed.

    An effective quick offence was required was a big ask for an army who have given their all but it won't work now.

    Russia will blow the nuke station at some stage to their advantage the west must warn that it is the same as a bomb, not heard that said yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭prunudo


    My fear would be that they will damage the power plant, or critical parts of it, not destroy it. It will be just enough to cause problems but also little enough to cause Nato to dither about the response.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "Russia will blow the nuke station at some stage to their advantage the west must warn that it is the same as a bomb, not heard that said yet."

    Don't know how you have not heard the repeated statements from NATO members that any incident caused by putin or his proxy's that leads to radioactive contamination will lead to severe consequences for putin's forces. Here is a link I already posted with further details:

    Only the most optimistic would have expected the forces of putin to just collapse at the start of the Ukrainian counteroffensive. Cracks are appearing and the Ukrainians are wearing down the defenses putin has established in the occupied territories:

    image.png




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