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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,480 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    If they just cripple the plant instead of causing a radioactive disaster I highly doubt it. A more measured western response would be announcing ATACMS, F16 and attack helis to Ukraine asap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    I find it strange that main outlets, like the BBC, don't question the idea of Putin having doubles.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66065551



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 8,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭circadian


    It's been made abundantly clear, in public and I'm sure in private too, that if anything happens to the plant that Russia will see a swift and comprehensive response.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They ( the WEST US Etc.) have already ruled out using nuclear weapons. They have more than enough conventional weapons to completely destroy the Russian military very quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,958 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    The BBC would have certain journalistic standards, that they abide by and speculation about body doubles would, I Imagine, fall below them. Now if there was incontrovertible evidence of their use then that might change.

    If you google "Putin Body double" though you can see many other outlets that are happy to write stories on the speculation, especially after the meet & greet in Dagestan the other day (including the Independent which is owned by a Russian oligarch)


    image.png image.png image.png image.png




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Does seem to be that way. A NATO-armed & supported legacy Soviet force is handing a larger Russian force their arses on the regular, with just land-based weapons and tactics.

    Throw in the combined sea, air and land forces of the NATO armies and you’d have them marching all the way to Novosibirsk in 3 days, not to mention Moscow. (I exaggerate, but it does seem like the Russian army would crumble in front of even a half-decent professional army)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Just look at the backdrop to all these videos...and you are looking at the real Russia, Rural Russia, and not the glitzy Moscow or St Petersburg. And when you see / hear reports of Russians stealing toilet's, fridges, washing machines etc. its easy to understand why. No Wonder Putin fears a successful Ukraine, one in the EU, an economic success and his Russians looking over the border and comparing it to their own miserable life and conditions. They would become uncontrollable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭mike_cork




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Because they have all been brainwashed that it's WW2 again, and the Nazi'z are coming to kill them all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,643 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes, that is his real fear. The average life expectancy of a Russian male, particularly, in rural areas is appalling



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Between that guy at the UN and Micky D and our two MEPs our reputation is taking a battering. Russian propaganda is really making inroads in this country. The other day was driving in a car with a friend. This guy is very much non politically engaged but he groaned when he heard on the radio that the US was announcing more aid to Ukraine. We were in mid conversation about something else completely. But the fact that he physically groaned and tut tutted when he heard that really struck me. I was actually Gobsmacked and didn’t acknowledge or tackle him on it. Getting more and more forwarded what’s apps as well decrying the war and anti NATO . The dial has been really turned up in pro Russian activity in this country. This time last year it was no where near as bad. I would bet every second person you meet here now would be 50/50 about the war in Ukraine. It’s a disgrace. Has there been any polls to gauge the level of support? I hope it would be overwhelmingly in favour of Ukraine. Are people in this country that heedless that they side with an expansionist murderous imperial regime over its smaller neighbour after all this country has been through. The issue has been politicised to death as well and being pro Russian is nearly an anti refugee establishment/government position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The real rural Russia is, in many cases, hundreds or thousands of miles from any possible border with the EU. They're not in much of a physical position to be looking over the garden wall. If it's more of a case of hearing about this in the media, they either can do this already, or Putin's got that locked down so tight that it's a non-starter. Besides, the rural populations are so dispersed, so economically depressed and so just concerned with day to day survival that revolution isn't a realistic proposition for them.

    And not only that, but the apparent fetishisation of hardship that Russians, especially rural Russians, engage in means that they'll accept their lot in life with little more than a shrug of the shoulders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭briany


    How easily we forget, eh?

    This country got a bit of money and the charity fell right out of it as a result.

    The right wing making in roads in this country is one thing, but the gall of them playing up Ireland's past victimhood out of one side of their mouth, and demonising today's victims with the other.

    It's not even somebody from Nigeria perhaps chancing their arm in this case, but a country that is very evidently getting devastated and having huge amounts of its population displaced by the most terrible of war.

    If there isn't a charitable attitude to that, then there can be little hope, and it's only our arrogance that makes us think that such a rape of a country could never happen to us again where it's us begging for aid, where it's us putting our women and children on a refugee boat to some safer part of the world, not knowing if we'd ever see them again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,958 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Yeah I've experienced similar as well. At this stage I know the people who not to broach the subject with. Typically they are what the yanks would describe as "low information voters". Basically people who have no interest in politics but if asked will typically say that they believe that all politicians are corrupt liars. They're already primed to believe the worst and so Russian propaganda plays into that. I have found that trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone on the topic is a frustrating waste of time so I just steer clear of it now.



  • Subscribers Posts: 747 ✭✭✭FlipperThePriest


    The type of people that fall for this guff will usually be diametrically opposed to the general consensus when it comes to any contentious issue of the day. It seems to me that these are people that have pretty **** lives, end up marginalised by society and it's easier to blame society for their grievances rather than take a look inward and shoulder some blame for their life and choices.

    This same attitude then spills into general societal issues and is backed up by their echo chambers online. Covid ballsing up society? That's the government's fault. Immigration problem? Government. Russia invading its neighbour, torturing raping, bombing and killing civilians? Stupid bloody west. They will always go against the grain of society because in their heads, it's society's fault that they have a **** existence. 



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,215 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is a particularly virulent strain of "republicanism" (its not real republicanism, I don't know what to call it) that sees it as a point of pride to be against anything that Britain supports and holds an absurd grudge about partition that makes them reject any efforts to enable Ukraine to retake the occupied parts of its country (by making historically illiterate comparisons).

    Its sad to see.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's been my experience that every single one of these types I've encountered is a conspiracy theorist of some stripe. If they were WEF/AntiVax/Bill Gates is sterilising us/Anti Woke/Scamdemic/anti EU/Flat earthers etc before, it follows they're near 100% guaranteed to be a newly minted Russia supporter.

    It's a given. Indeed I would suggest imho it's such a given that Russia has been grooming these disaffected Western fringe groups mostly online for at least 10 years(the Chinese in the mix wouldn't shock me either). They have previous with this as they were doing it throughout Cold War 1. Left wing groups, Right wing groups, peaceniks, anarchists and so on. They were also pushing the oul leftie post modernist stuff too. It wouldn't shock me that they helped push the "Woke" narrative and now push the "Anti Woke" because it suits them now. I mean when you see Americans waving Russian flags because they think they're conservative Christians that hate the Gays... You couldn't make it up. Never mind a host of Africans seemingly keen to invite in another White European Christian empire to screw them over.

    They're certainly using them now. Go on Twitter or Arsebook and if you see conspiracy in their bios/posts they'll also push Russian propaganda. You can tell because read one and you've essentially read them all and you've read what the Kremlin wants them to spin and you to read. It's the same script, with the same pics, the same memes, the same stock responses to open criticism. Now you get some of that from the Ukrainian side, but not nearly so consistently and you have to read a lot more people to get the wider picture and they contradict each other a lot, which is what you'd expect from a normal crowd.

    This was very evident when Prig made his "March of Justice" towards Moscow. The usual voices fell silent, or got very confused, like the rest of us. The Kremlin script hadn't been written yet. The script when it finally came out was enlightening, for me anyway. Putin solved this peacefully. No Russians died(at first. This went stale when it couldn't be denied Russian airmen were killed, so it was ignored). Russia is fully behind Putin. Cue near every one of them posting a video of a bunch of young Russian women singing and dancing to a "I'm Russia" song. With the all too usual "no blacks/fatties/faggots/trannies in that mix". Then it was lots and lots of Putin is loved, with the more ardent arse tonguers near crying over his greatness. It was flat though and they knew it. Then France and riots came along to save the day and they must have jizzed their pants at the lifeline for a new script. With the same pics, the same memes, the same stock responses, from the same people, repeated by morons... Rinse and repeat.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,831 ✭✭✭yagan


    I've met English, Welsh and scots who feel the same way about the British. Maybe the supremist British imperial identity is the problem and not us.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,215 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well the Welsh and Scots are British so they're idiots if they think that cause they are every bit as imperial as the English (particularly the Scots, less so the Welsh).

    Nonetheless, its an historical irrelevance in the current context. Its the equivalent of saying "that cop mistreated me so I hope he dies in that school shooting and isn't able to stop it".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭zv2


    @Wibbs "With the same pics, the same memes, the same stock responses, from the same people, repeated by morons"

    Don't you know, humanity has entered the moronocene.

    Post edited by zv2 on

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    There is no doubt that close to100% of those conspiracy theorist types are all in with Russia in this invasion. But I reckon it is creeping if not cascading beyond those types as well. The politically non engaged who will swallow the lazy answer that does not tax their brain too much. They are nearly fully converted at this stage too. Contrarians and edgy types with attitude just love being arsey and taking the Russian view allows them to indulge in and wallow in that. Then you have those who give out about refugees a good lot of them will overlap with a pro Russian viewpoint too. And then there is a good few people who you would just be surprised and shocked to see them taking the Russian line. No other explanation only the internet algorithm has picked them up and has them in a feedback loop of lies.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh I agree, though I would say that a large percentage of those groups you list buy into the conspiracy stuff too. Not flat earth level daftness, but very much the conspiracies around the EU/WEF/Vaxx etc.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Site Banned Posts: 899 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    He speaks about how the US helps around the world in times of crisis. Russia and it's parrots try to paint USAs involvement abroad as interfering and bullying. We all know the stereotypical yank as the loud idiot that can't read a map but when they're educated they really strive to be the best




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,958 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    100%.

    What you're describing there a network of loosely affiliated groupings who all have 1 thing in common - susceptibility to disinformation. You can see this in action in an Irish context via a little exercise.

    1. First you find a twitter account that is straight up racist. Those are easier to come by these days. If you can't find any then this one is a good example of the type.
    2. Go to either their list of followers or their list of followed accounts and pick another Irish account.
    3. Have a look at their bio and timeline and get a feel for what they are about
    4. Repeat steps 3 & 4, choosing accounts you haven't views already each time

    If you do this for long enough you'll start to notice that the content of the accounts changes but they'll probably be in certain areas:

    • Straight Up racist and xenophobic accounts tweeting race-baiting material. Typical fare are video clips of black people acting aggressively against white people - These accounts are nearly always anonymous
    • More garden variety anti-migrant accounts - sometimes named accounts
    • Catholic Nationalists / Irish Traditionalists (often combinations of Historical info, migrant bashing, religious and anti-abortion content)
    • Anti-vaxxers (Often still tweeting non stop about Covid vaccines and Covid disinformation)
    • More general conspiracy theorists (New World Order, W.E.F, Soros & Gates etc)
    • Lunatic conspiracy theories (Flat Earthers, Elders of Zion, Freemasons, David Icke theories etc)
    • Sinn Fein hate accounts (the anti migrant crowd really despise them - probably because they are populists but they aren't anti-migrant)
    • Irish accounts just retweeting American Conservatives and Brexiteers (lots of pro-Trump content)
    • Climate Change Denial
    • Anti-LGBT
    • Anti-Ukrainian/Zelensky/NATO/EU

    None of these will be distinct categories as any one account will have bits of many of these. The one constant though is the promotion of content that taps into people's cynicism and fears. It's designed to enrage them but also to be retweeted. Quite often this stuff is blatant disinformation but nobody cares. There's a distinct lack of humour on these timelines (Apart from "ha-ha those idiots said we were wrong but look at this" type stuff which isn't really actually humour). It's all Rage & Fear. It's bleak stuff and it's concerning that so many people get sucked into this rabbit hole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    They also seem to be the type that claim to be against corruption and elite billionaires. But yet are ok with a mafia state.

    I really think a lot of it has to do with how Putin appeals to their inner thug.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭zv2


    A lot of American aggression is aimed at containing Russia and if that's the way it has to be, so be it. Russia has been mass murdering since it came into existence.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭jmreire


    None the less, ethnic Russians are far from popular in the Republics, especially the rural areas. And its universal, there's a sense that over time, Russians have only ever screwed people, and not only backed by, but actively encouraged by Moscow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,072 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Inner anarchist.

    Putin is seen as anti everything western so if you're an anarchist in the West he's a possible follow.

    He's the modern day Hitler. No doubt if the guy himself was reborn and shouting the speeches there'd be followers. Putin just tries to make sure he keeps his speeches in a low voice and mellowed for fear of clips being shown simultaneously. But no less evil nonetheless.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,710 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Quite a few of them seem to be quite low in intelligence and emotional intelligence. They haven't got the critical thinking skills to work out when they are being lied to or even to try and weigh up an argument by looking at both sides of it. They will often openly sneer at academia and education and dismiss it as part of the lefty, woke "blob" that is out to screw them over and make their lives worse.



This discussion has been closed.
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