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Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'd never before heard of someone convicted and sentenced to prison, not serving time because of an administrative error. that was an eye-opener.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus


    I can't speak as to the motives behind the report, any opinions I have would only be conjecture.

    Yes, absolutely the facts are that the man is dead, and the driver of the car who killed him fled the scene.

    The incident happened on August 2nd. From what I can tell, sunset at that time of year is 21.20ish. Lighting up time is ½ hour after that, so 21.50ish. The man was hit at 21.15, almost a half hour after that again

    The judge is not wrong in saying he was legally required to have lights on his bike

    Post edited by cletus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    I don't think he deflected at all and dealt with the issue and addressed it; in a nutshell our court/jail system would collapse if we locked up all these minor not violent convicts.

    I'm not aware of any jurisdiction where the criminal justice system alone have fixed the dysfunction in their society wrought by widespread illicit drug and alcohol abuse. Take a walk into any district court of your choice and see the revolving door that exists for an underclass in society. On the night in question there are probably 100's of people in breach of bail conditions while simultaneously our jails are beyond full.

    Jails are a bit like roads, if you build them you fill them but things rarely enough get better.

    The main issue here is that the driver was perversely rewarded for leaving the scene. Given his history it is highly likely he was under the influence at time( or highly agitated from not being so), but by running we don't or can't have that evidence. A mandatory sentence for running would insure this time of criminal isn't rewarded for such a despicable act.

    In the absence of such evidence all is left is physical evidence at scene, driver's vehicle and probably no eye witness. Never enough for a conviction most of the time.

    Someone in the judges position has to review all facts and state uncomfortable truths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭mvt


    You notice that the person or persons who didn't do their job so this criminal was able to, in effect, murder someone are not named in this report.

    Easy for us all to waffle on an anonymous internet forum when it's not our relative or friend involved.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    That time of year, at that time, Lights are not an issue and how it is even a consideration is beyond my comprehension. I agree on the building more jails is not a solution as evidence worldwide indicates it exacerbates issues in the criminal justice system rather than solves them but that doesn't change the fact that he was a repeat offender and at some point, even minor crimes must be punished.

    The truth of the matter is that no matter the back story, there are no excuses at that time of day at that time of year for not seeing someone. Ignoring all other issues, there is only one person to blame and deflecting it onto the victims lights is BS and anyone who says differently is cracked. If you think that having a rear light on would have saved his life, then it is insulting to any rational thinking person, as well as his family. At this time of year, dusk is 23:00 in Monaghan. At the time of the accident, you are looking at around 21:30 to 22:00, so it certainly wasn't dark.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus


    By 10.20 last night, you'd want lights on here anyway.

    I doesn't really matter if any of us think it's dark enough or not to warrant lights, legally he was into the lighting up window



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    That 30 mins after sunset/before sunrise is an archaic leftover from a time when batteries and vehicle lighting was of a very poor quality compared to today.

    Even at that the UK in 1957 due to increasing speeds they change from 60 mins to 30mins. If that was prudent then, given speed increases 30 mins today seems unwise; particularly to cater for damp/overcast evenings .

    As a vulnerable road user sunset/sunrise should be the limits of when to ride without lights, certainly on N roads.

    In vehicles automatic lights have largely made the law redundant.

    If you look at the audax thread here the recent recommendation for lights from an experienced rider and organiser was for 3 rear lights, in order to cope with battery/redundancy issues.

    To say lighting on bike is irrelevant is complete cycling forum blinkers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    So there is no increase in risk riding on N roads 45mins after sunset (irrespective of the weather conditions as we are ignorant of them) as against riding them with a quality rear light?

    Is it something you would recommend to a friend or would you advise them use a light? If you would, why?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,324 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Not something I'd necessarily recommend but I'm not in favour of summary executions for minor transgressions either. There has to be some obligation on those in charge of dangerous equipment to be on the lookout for other humans. Between sunset and dusk you should still be able to see other road users, in fact I'd say it's probably easier to see what's ahead at that time than before sunset when the sun is low.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus


    Yes, it's archaic, as are the rules around the size etc of the lights required. It's what we have in the law, though.

    I don't think I suggested lights were irrelevant, rather I was saying personal opinions on whether it was dark enough to warrant lights was irrelevant



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus


    I'd agree with you, but facts are facts. The judge in this case referred to the fact that the cyclist did not have lights on, contrary to the law.

    As @Large bottle small glass put it (more eloquently, I might add) had this ended up in court because the cyclist was injured, then the lack of lights would have been used as mitigating evidence by the defense. This doesn't change because the cyclist died.

    It doesn't give me any pleasure to say any of this, particularly when my posts are thanked by the likes of spook_ie, and I'm not saying what I'm saying to excuse or lessen the actions of the man driving the car, but the idea (put forward by a number of posters here) that the judge wouldn't bring this up in a report on the incident seems odd to me.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I'm saying the danger was not increased or decreased, it was dusk, not dark. If a driver couldn't see him then, he wouldn't have seen him earlier or with lights, lets not dress it up. Yes, it might have added protection from inattentive drivers who weren't focused enough but that's not what happened here and I find it hard to believe anyone thinks differently.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Scroll down a bit - I hadn't heard of Ciaran cannon's plan to cycle through every county in Ireland in under 48 hours.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus


    I'd be interested in seeing the route. My fists thought was 48 hours doesn't seem a lot, but then I realised he doesn't have to cycle right through the centre of every county, he just has to cross the borders



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I also had the same thought. And is he doing a 32 county or 26 county run?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus


    The article says he'll be heading 'in the direction of Antrim, and then left towards Donegal', so I'm assuming 32 counties.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Ah, I somehow missed that. Cheers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    I wonder is he on Strava. I'd like to see that route



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭De Bhál




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭cletus




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  • Posts: 551 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I presume this is his Strava profile?




  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TII presented to a govt committee a few days back on the active projects list. See link

    From page 100 on, you have the updates on active travel and greenways. There's about 15 pages of updates for a boat load of projects. Loads of good stuff on the way and great to see so many projects active

    https://www.tii.ie/news/press-releases/opening-statement-28-06/JCTC_28June2023_Opening_Statement-and-Appendices.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    You have no idea of whether conditions? I haven't seen it reported and met.ie records don't go back that far.

    So the risk of being hit from behind on a 100km/h N road is the same 45mins after sunset on a damp evening with or without lights?

    For fella critical of someone swapping science for opinion you are making some quantum leaps in logic there.

    How do you "know" what happened here?

    "Is it something you would recommend to a friend or would you advise them use a light? If you would, why?"

    You seemed to miss that question



  • Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bike sheds and planning permission was discussed on Newstalk breakfast.

    As an aside, I saw a lovely one in Raheny the other day, good size wooden shed which would store a number of bikes. Hopefully it becomes more commonplace.


    https://www.newstalk.com/news/discreet-domestic-bike-sheds-should-not-need-planning-permission-greens-1483007?fbclid=PAAabLbUU0vdCXOJm0QwhJ7QvAbxBx69R6Ry7T0bXJHUhw0_ngINzIIJBhJJQ



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    It was August 2nd in 2011 at 10:15pm. Met Eireann has the historical data on its website, it was not raining at the nearest weather station (Ballyhaise, Cavan) since a small drop pre 7am that morning. Sunset was at 21:26 but civil twilight was 22:10 and nautical twilight was 23:15. So five minutes before he crash occurred it was bright enough to comfortably read a book outside without any assistance and the need for artificial light was unnecessary for almost anything was unnecessary. Up to an hour later it was still comfortable to see most things without a lighting aide.

    Would I have had a light on, yes. Was it a determining factor in this crash? I would say that no, it was not a major influence on the incident based on the evidence to hand. I could be wrong and when evidence indicates that his lights may have had a significant affect on the chances of this specific crash happening, I will of course change my viewpoint with the evidence to hand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭JMcL




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,809 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    would anyone be surprised by that though? that sort of boom was obviously never going to be sustained. it'd be way more interesting to know if *interest* in cycling has similarly waned.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,809 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I was aware of it simply because my two LBSs aren't as busy with sales but are under pressure on the servicing side. No idea if that is due to more bikes getting serviced or if staff numbers are down as both have staff coming and going.

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