Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Air Conditioning

  • 07-09-2021 9:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭


    Grateful for any feedback from anyone that has installed air conditioning in their house.

    Contemplating putting a unit in open plan living area and master bedroom.



Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    You mean heat recovery ventilation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭Frozen Veg




  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    never considered installing aircon in a dwelling in Ireland.

    generally the solution is fabric upgrade and position of windows

    can you describe your accommodation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Biker1


    I can see circumstances where air conditioning would be necessary in poorly designed new houses. i.e huge south and west facing windows. Clearly the designers are not carrying out an overheating analysis at design stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭Frozen Veg


    Over heating is a problem with the majority of new houses now.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Merrion


    An air-to-air heat exchanger can provide cooling in the summer and heating in the winter.

    If it is a large open-plan area then the "cassette" in the ceiling might be a good way of doing it?

    (Installation not cheap as requires an f-gas certified installer)



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Rubbish. that’s a ridiculous generalisation. Please provide data to back-up this statement ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Borzoi


    Dont live with it, but do work with it. There's not too many domestic installations here, and many of those are in the trade. Having said that, any I know are happy with it. Its not cheap, you'll pay €2-3k per room



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭poker--addict


    Got a quote or two last year and 2-3k per room it was. With solar panels running costs would be minimal, not sure how often they need servicing?

    Would it be possible to DIY install and service?

    😎



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭bemak


    I agree that it's a generalised comment but I also think that the negative impact of solar gain is often overlooked in newer builds. Cheap glazing has a lot to do with it as the glass used often has a higher g-value which allows more heat to pass through. I recently put in a large west-facing slider into my own kitchen/dining but I was careful to specify glass with a low g-value. As a result, the solar gain from the glazing is negligible - to the extent that we haven't even bothered with blinds. In contrast, the bedrooms on the same side of the house with older double glazing (installed by previous owner) bake in weather like this - even with blinds.

    OPs situation is tricky. I have friends in similar positions in refurbished houses. MVHR is the system of choice at the moment and they're great for managing humidity. However I think it's only a matter of time before ventilation systems with air conditioning become the norm. I was talking to a specifier of MVHR systems who was looking at the idea of putting a cooling element into the intake duct that could be linked back to a heat pump to provide cooler air into a dwelling. Similar systems run heat pumps in reverse to cool floor slabs via underfloor heating pipework. You just have to be careful that you don't introduce condensation in such circumstances. With anything, it's about getting a balance.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Do you know what the G of acoustic glass is? Personally I wonder should more attention be paid to adding mass to rooms, like exposed concrete



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,010 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Generally, extremely large windows, even southern ones. Cause the loss of more heat than they gain. In Ireland, overheating is simply not likely. Situations where I have seen overheating, would be from super insulated and airtight fabric, that retains close to 100% of energy. In this can minor gains accumulate. But it's easily solved by opening windows to create air flow.

    Ireland simply isn't warm enough for over heating to be a major issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Installed an air conditioner heating cooling dehumidifier (no external heat pump) in an older house. Wifi controlled (not there a lot). Total cost (sealed unit) including installation 2700euro. Has worked perfectly for the past 4 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Sure, it only has to happen a few weeks a year to cause a lot of discomfort. There are defin Irish homes that overheat too much to be cooled by night opening of windows. I am not saying they need air conditioning but opening the windows at night isnt always enough. Large southern windows are defin risky in some designs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭bemak


    I've never had to specify acoustic glass to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭bemak


    what brand/model did you get if you don't mind me asking?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Olympia splendid…bought in uk…available in europe



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭bemak




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Probably not so equatable to Ireland (or maybe so in terms of price comparison), but we installed a system in a new build house in Lithuania last year..

    During the construction phase we took the option to pay €1,800 to have all the pre work done for a future install of an air to air system... so this involved running the copper pipes and electrical cables to each room where a blower unit would be installed (4 rooms in total). we were gonna maybe wait a few years before installing the actual system..


    Then a few months later we decided to press on with the install ahead of schedule as the house only came with some plug in radiators, and with Lithuanian winters being quite cold, we wanted some form of remote control over the heating as we live in Ireland.... So we contacted the installer who gave us a list of the systems they install, and it came down to a Gree system (€4,500) and a Samsung system (€6,500) as both of these systems had wifi built into them which meant remote control.... I was leaning towards the Samsung system as I'd never heard of Gree before (and surely Samsung would be decent enough), but upon talking to the installer, he assured us that Gree was probably the best option for value, and he said their service and support in Lithuania was second to none (and then once aware of the brand, I was noticing they are used quite a lot in Lithuania), so we went with the Gree system... total price was €6,300 (including the pre works) and that got us the external unit, and 4 internal room blowers. all fully controllable from either the remote controls or via the Free app (which was easy to set up and add the 4 units to it)


    Haven't used the system yet in the summer to cool, but have been there a few times in the winter (-12) and it worked flawlessly to heat the house and keep it warm while we were there... going for 3 weeks in July/August so hopefully get to test out the system in summer in a bit of heat...



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,021 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    My 1930's build solid brick house over heats in the winter summer massively. The rear is south facing and we have had over 40* heat measured in the rooms over the last few summers.

    We are about to start renovation (the house is as is, single glazed, no insulation etc) and an over-heating study is a significant part of the final design. (a mixture of low-g glass, external louvres and electric awnings)

    Post edited by GreeBo on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 39,010 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Overheats in winter? I assume that’s a typo and you mean summer. But that’s a really a very different and unrelated scenario. The comment specifically said new houses. I’d assume your new house is nowhere near modern standards.

    Single glazing has a high SHGC, so there will some solar energy gain of course. But the bigger contributor in that case will be thermal energy straight through the fabric. The roof and walls without semi adequate insulation will be gaining heat, even the single glazed windows conduct thermal energy when the outside is warmer that inside. Plus radiant heat from the hot roof etc

    Think of how hot an uninsulated roof space gets in summer, or a shed wit ha tin roof.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,021 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Yeah sorry, I meant summer!

    My point was that if an old house like mine over heats a modern house with better insulation and air tightness could/would certainly over heat without taking measures (based on an over-heating survey) to avoid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Tampa? Is that Tampa Ballinluska in Myrtleville in Co. Cork?



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,010 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Why is your uninsulated house indicative of how an insulated house performs? I think perhaps you are misunderstanding or forgetting how insulation perform in hot weather. When it's warm outside, insulation slows the entry of heat.

    Airtightness is pretty easy to nullify. Open a window. Which you are only supposed to do when the inside is warmer than the outside. Natural ventilation strategies like that work in much warmer climates than Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,021 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I'm not, insulation slows the entry of heat, but large, south facing windows don't, unless they have been specified as part of an over heating study and even then the glass itself is often not enough, hence people have awnings, over hangs, pergolas and brise soleil added to their homes.

    Your post said

    Situations where I have seen overheating, would be from super insulated and airtight fabric, that retains close to 100% of energy. In this can minor gains accumulate. But it's easily solved by opening windows to create air flow.

    Ireland simply isn't warm enough for over heating to be a major issue.

    so thats what I am responding to. Ireland is certainly warm enough for over heating in any type of house, new or old.


    Simply opening a window isn't suitable in many scenarios and if the inside is too warm then you have solar gain in the fabric of the building and merely opening a window to let the 20*+ air in isnt going to help much. Much better to stop it from getting too hot in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,010 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    There's a few key points that are incorrect there.

    I'm not, insulation slows the entry of heat, but large, south facing windows don't, unless they have been specified as part of an over heating study 

    That is incorrect. There are u-value requirements to meeting Irish building regs, including u-values of glazing, and increase U-Value means a lower SHGC. Therefore meeting those U-values means you will reduce the heat gain via windows via two means. The conductivity, and radiation (solar gain is radiation). That applies to all modern windows regardless of whether a specific overheating study is undertaken.

    You single glazed windows wouldn't have nearly the same protection. So it's does not imply that a house with better insulation would certainly overheat more. Which is the claim I'm refuting.

    so thats what I am responding to. Ireland is certainly warm enough for over heating in any type of house, new or old.

    I literally state in that paragraph that it can happen in super-insulated house, when near all heat is retained (as any gain accumulate). It's a real consideration for passive house design, as anyone who has studied passive house design figured out early. You are using extreme examples at either end, nobody mentioned 1930s house that don't meet building regs. Nor did anybody mention passive houses.

    The claim was that overheating is a problem with the majority of new houses now. That claim is not true imo. Pointing out that it happens at extremes cases of A and B does not mean it happens for every type between A and B - FWIW those two extremes overheat for opposite reasons.

    Simply opening a window isn't suitable in many scenarios and if the inside is too warm then you have solar gain in the fabric of the building and merely opening a window to let the 20*+ air in isnt going to help much. Much better to stop it from getting too hot in the first place.

    If the inside is 40* due to massive solar gain and the outside is 20* then opening a windows will be huge. That's literally how natural ventilation works. It works in much warmer climates than Ireland. (My office is an uninsulated 1900s brick building that used natural ventilation very success at part of mixed mode)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭poker--addict


    Our house is mid noughties, so not your new a1 or your old build. I count 28 in bedrooms with blinds closed as over heating! Only needs 3 days in a row of warm temperatures for the heat to build. Windows open during day/night, tried all combos. Very hard to generate a breeze. Bought a "mobile" (massive) aircon which does one or two rooms, but even getting the aircon air to flow to adjoining room seems a challenge.


    inhertited a ground loop heat pump but never understood if we could get it operating in cool mode in summer.


    fwiw with regards to other debate, almost every single person I know in a new A rated home complains about summer high temps in their house.

    😎



Advertisement