Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I think ROG said in the aftermath that the maul won them the game, tho, but fair enough.

I’d agree there’s little bearing to Ireland alright. I think back to the SA game in the AI’s; I think SA had something like 7 mauls in the first half and didn’t get much purchase whereas we got 1 and scored our try.

Another thing about Crowley that may be in his favour against Byrne is that he's performed behind a pack that wouldn't be as on top as Leinster's are throughout the season. I don't think Ireland will have that level of dominance against the better sides and that makes a little bit nervous about Byrne. Neither are the finished article though, hanging the whole thing on Sexton may come back to bite us, hopefully not.

And the maul is what allowed LAR back into the game.

Both things can be true.

In counter argument, Byrne was excellent for nearly all of the season and only really fell flat in the LAR game (keeping in mind he didn't play against Munster). Not as eye-catching, for sure, but very good in a very different way.

By contrast, the sample size for Crowley being brilliant is very, very small.

That's not a criticism of Crowley, it's just how things are. Farrell won't be picking anyone on the basis of two or three games. If Crowley spends the next 3 months proving that he is the player you describe, then he'll get past Byrne handy enough.

Even with a smaller sample size, there’s less risk putting him in the 22 jersey than as a starter.

I think there’s more upside to Crowley there than Ross Byrne.

Yeah, hard to argue with any of that. Only thing is that Byrne regained the #2 spot by the 6N, so Crowley would probably still need to get a run of performances together in the warmups to get that spot back by September. I have every confidence he will though. Whatever was holding him back against Australia, he'll have a lot more confidence in himself now.

More potential upside absolutely, and more potential downside.

Again, I'm not criticising Crowley, but if he's not picked at 22 (or 10 if Sexton not fit) come the RWC, there is going to be an absolute sh1tstorm directed at Farrell, but we absolutely haven't seen enough to say he's definitely earned it, nor will we see anything of what Farrell sees in the next two months.

ROG known for his honesty? Are you trolling? I think you should give yourself a warning for that comment.

We’ve seen plenty to have the discussion tho.

What areas do you think Byrne is better? And what areas do you think Crowley is? How how does the relate to how Ireland play overall? Or the balance of the bench selection?

That’s all far more interesting than repeating “we don’t see what Farrell sees” to every discussion about selection that comes up.

If Sexton isn't fit..... oh boyyyy

I hope Crowley comes good. I really do. He's got the tools to succeed.

Byrne is a competent reserve, imo. He's reliable and experienced and he is a good defender.

That’s all far more interesting than repeating “we don’t see what Farrell sees” to every discussion about selection that comes up.

Ah, is that necessary? Like, when a guy has such a small and uneven track record as Crowley, isn't it perfectly reasonable to state that he'll be picked (or not) based heavily on what the coach sees in training? Why get so stressed about a valid comment?

But let's talk about what Farrell has seen. He's seen all of what you've described.

He's also seen Munster go to the Sharks with Crowley at ten, be absolutely rudderless and get hammered. He saw Munster go back to the same venue a few weeks later and be in deep trouble until Crowley was replaced by Healy and the game turned. He saw Crowley play against Glasgow who had 14 men and no outhalf for 55 minutes - and saw Munster fail to score for 50 of those minutes. He saw Crowley play well against the Leinster second string, I think that will cut less ice than you think.

So even in the run-in alone, there was just as much to suggest that he might not be the solution as to suggest that he is, none of which you brought up. As you're so fond of boring the arse off the rest of us by saying - you can't have it both ways.

And before you bite my head off, and the rest of them come rushing in to pile on me, you asked.

That's all fair re Byrne, but it's also one match.

No one is making any great claims for Byrne to be the next Lions 10, but if the Irish 22 jersey is being decided on proven ability in big matches, Byrne will get the nod and it won't even be close. Crowley needs to hope that he can overtake him in the next two months.

The "system" thing isn't an argument, because Crowley has been in the squad longer. If Byrne can pick it up better in less time, as you suggest, then he's a smarter player and maybe deserves the spot.