Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

OH FFS

I’m not asserting their are no performance differences though between males and females; there are of course, both at a group level, and at an individual level between athletes.

Those are your words I'm replying to. So You tell me which way you think. WTAF are you saying with those words?

Do you think males in general have a performance advantage over females in sports? yes or No? Please give a straight answer so I can at least respond to what you actually think.

There are no males complaining about the presence of females causing them an issue, because you’ve never heard of it so I must be wrong? That’s not even a curious line of reasoning, it’s bloody obvious what the problem is - you’re basing your argument solely on your own experience! It’s an argument from authority given your multi-decade sporting career, but it doesn’t mean I’m wrong. I know I’m not wrong, because I’ve experienced it myself with having to deal with males who had issues with females participating in organised sporting events. I don’t have to have a multi-decade career in sports to make that point.

I didn't make any reference to my athletic history in the thread until you referenced it in the last day or two. Mainly because I don't think any is required to express an opinion on this subject in general. Personally, I think it helps with gaining additional levels of perspective, but I'd endeavour not to dismiss anyone's opinion just because they didn't have a similar background. But since you mentioned I'm happier to bring in any relevant experience I've gained.

I'm more than happy to 100% agree that what I've given there is anecdotal experience, not hard-proven facts. No arguments at all on that front. On the other hand, all you've given so far is your opinion without anything to back it up, anecdotal or otherwise. So could you please provide some evidence to back up your assertion, since that seems to be the standard you require.

There’s a theme emanating from your posts that goes something like - if you don’t see it, then I’m wrong. It’s the kind of reasoning employed in Iran to maintain the idea that there are no gay men or women in Iran, because it’s illegal, and they don’t discriminate against people who are transgender either

No, I can accept a huge amount of things I don't see with my own eyes / experience myself... Once there is something to back it up. I've been providing external references for quite a lot of the points I've been asserting in this thread. In fairness, you often do too (even though I would consider the majority of your external references to be irrelevant to the points under discussion!). But you've provided nothing to back up this assertion, so frankly I'm happy that my anecdotal experience trumps an opinion that currently lacks backing. I'm not saying the backing doesn't exist. You have just yet to present it.

For what it's worth, my extremely more limited experience is the same. When I used to train with an athletics club, most of the runners who were the same level as me and slightly better, were women. The idea that male runners would have a problem with that could only be imagined by someone who has never been involved in the sport.

At a strict logical level, this is correct. But, I think you owe Enduro a more detailed explanation. Which sport? What exactly happened? How long ago? I saw the same thing myself decades ago when attitudes were very different, and in other sports. But, that would not be the situation today.

it should be an easy issue to solve

this is a woman's sport, you ID as a transgender woman, therefore not a woman, therefore....

If transwomen are women, then insisting they take drugs or hormones to satisfy some arbitrary level of testosterone, for example, is obviously morally and ethically indefensible, if not an outright violation of their human rights.

It's precisely because transwomen are not women that this argument is not made. But it will be made in time if the barriers keep on being eroded.

I was talking about this accusation of misinterpretation here:

I would suggest that the frequency of misinterpretations is not the fault of the good reader.

Actually endurance sports are mostly exactly the same as shorter events in terms of the statistical gaps between male and female performances are concerned. An easy analysis would be to look at the world records for endurance events, and you'll in general that the gaps between male and female performances follow the usual pattern in general.

There is a perception out there the gap narrows, but that's probably because of a different factor... opportunity. In shorter events males and females tend to race in separate events (think the Olympics, for example), so you will never see a female outright win a mixed event, or see the good females beating the less talented males, as there are no mixed competitions. However the vast majority of extreme endurance events are mixed, so you'll see the better females beating the less talented males in most events, and sometimes there'll be enough of an ability mis-match so that the best female will win an event outright. That's not unexpected or surprising. It doesn't stop a few eejits with a complete lack of understanding of statistics from thinking this has some kind of significance to the underlying performance advantages that males have over females in sports in general, unfortunately.

Similarly, for a local example, look at the Dublin marathon. Thousands of entrants of both sexes competing side by side. The gap between the top males and the top females will usually be what you'd expect statistically. The top females will still beat thousands and thousand of males though. And if for some reason the top males didn't compete and the top females did, then you'd end up with an overall female winner.

Some trans sports women make that exact point - that being trans is just another genetic trait or advantage, like women in the WNBA being taller than most women, or men in the NBA being taller than most men. So, being assigned male at birth is just another trait that some people are lucky to possess. It makes sense if you disregard the female sex, as a category that deserves to be respected.

This thread is utterly amazing. More hoops jumped through than sonic the hedgehog. Who ironically enough is competing in the female 100m sprint in next olympics.

Of course  transwomen are biological males, only a biological male can be a transwoman. A biological woman cannot be a transwoman.

This isn't opinion, preference or a vote, it's reality.

Extremist gender ideologists don't believe we live in a postmodern age that has rejected metaphysics. Not saying that's what you're dealing with, but there's a bit of a bang off that line of reasoning. Supplying more, actually, any amount of evidence may be a complete waste of your time.

Here's a bunch of lower league, many long retired men against the women's US national team in a 40 minute game. It probably would have been 30-0 if it was a top tier team over 90 minutes. One Eyed Jack will tell you there's no evidence men have any advantage in sport though:

Jesus, this is a slaughter.

Brings the USA womens team to mind with their barking on about the difference in pay between the mens team and the mens World Cup. This is why.

The women were obviously not trying hard enough.

More data needed!

The women were aiming to be beaten 14-0. They should train harder and aim higher!

They'd be as good as the men if those mean old males didn't historically exclude them from the elite levels of sport!

I don't understand that pro wrestling isn't real and that the GAA is an amateur organisation!

I have never expressed any interest in sport or displayed any expertise on the subject on these boards yet I know far more about it than the rest of you!

More data needed!