Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Red Silurian · 31-05-2023 04:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661711#Comment_120661711

Will do - no more talking about provincial bias from me in this thread

cuttingtimber22 · 31-05-2023 06:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662904#Comment_120662904

Perhaps a more realistic challenge. Join the Leinster supporters club for a year?

31-05-2023 07:52PM

Listening to the 42 pod… quote from Murray Kinsella.

“There is an element of misfortune with injury. There is personal responsibility as well and players getting the best out of themselves. Also the reality is they aren’t playing on as good a team as the Leinster team, that’s the comparison here. Put Rob Balacoune in that Leinster team and he would rip it up. Put anyone in that Leinster team and they would rip it up. Take players out of that Leinster team and put them elsewhere and we’ve seen it, they are not as good. Its such an advantage to be in the Leinster system, that’s why players turn down the opportunity to go elsewhere so yes they probably would have with the quality around them.’

That’s a answer to the question

‘Would the likes of Balacoune have kicked on if they would have the privilege of being in the leinster coaching system’?

I might have missed a word here or there as I transcribed it.

So….. is it an advantage in Ireland selection if you play for Leinster? Yes.

Neil3030 · 31-05-2023 07:57PM

He'll soon be saying that about Munster, imo.

Rowntree, Prendergast, Leamy and <guy who looks like Archer whose name I can never spell> are brewing up something very special.

31-05-2023 07:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663656#Comment_120663656

If Casey and Crowley become the irish halfback pairing, yea it will become easier for munster backs to make it i’d say.

bilston · 31-05-2023 08:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657943#Comment_120657943

Stockdale's Ulaser form has been pretty good actually.

cuttingtimber22 · 31-05-2023 08:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663656#Comment_120663656

Munster are number 1 in Ireland at the moment.

Neil3030 · 31-05-2023 08:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663695#Comment_120663695

Is that some laser tag centre in Belfast that the players visit during their downtime?

stephen_n · 31-05-2023 09:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663638#Comment_120663638

I’m not being smart here but I don’t see him making it into the Leinster team. He does not suit the way Leinster use their wingers, any more than he does with Ireland.

aloooof · 31-05-2023 09:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663939#Comment_120663939

Baloucoune doesn’t strike me as any worse a match to Leinster than, say, Larmour, no?

He’d, at a minimum, be ahead of him imo, and get plenty of gametime in the Leinster system.

Neil3030 · 31-05-2023 09:43PM

It's so tricky to really assess how RB would slot into Ireland or Leinster, because while:

(a) we know that Faz likes his wingers to come inside and look for work,

can we say for sure that:

(b) Dan does NOT want his wingers to do this?

So any broader judgement on RB might have to be made on his Ireland appearances, of which there's only been... 3 or 4? And none since the EI tour?

stephen_n · 31-05-2023 09:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663966#Comment_120663966

I think Larmour has started to do a lot more work coming in field than Baloucoune does. Baloucoune is much more of a finisher than Larmour is. I think that’s what keeps him out of Irish squads too. You look at the wingers both Leinster and Ireland like, they come off their wing a lot looking for work. I don’t see that from Baloucoune with Ulster.

Former Former Former · 31-05-2023 09:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664009#Comment_120664009

And none since the EI tour?

He played the full 80 against both SA and Fiji after the EI tour. He was... grand.

aloooof · 31-05-2023 10:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664057#Comment_120664057

I'm not sure I see it from Larmour either, tbh.

But if Larmour has started to do it... is that not an indication that being in the Leinster system has been of benefit to him towards that? Why would we not expect to see the same from Baloucoune?

Neil3030 · 31-05-2023 10:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664069#Comment_120664069

Ah OK, well then yeah, it's probably a bit easier to assess.

That I can't even remember him playing in those games might tell its own story...

stephen_n · 31-05-2023 10:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664091#Comment_120664091

Because he doesn’t do it for Ulster. I would imagine it’s a work on he has been given from Ireland camps but I can’t say I see him doing it. So unless he’s being coached to not do it for Ulster. You’d wonder why he isn’t.

Also I think Larmour’s place in the pecking order in Leinster is influenced by the fact he does it less than his counterparts.

fitz · 31-05-2023 10:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664091#Comment_120664091

Whether you want to call it the "Leinster system" or just better coaching that's more on top of developing players that can be effective in the context of how the game is currently played. I think Leinster players are just better coached. That becomes a feedback loop when it turns into success. I think as others have pointed out, you can already see the difference Rowntree has made at Munster, and long may that continue... he's really been a terrific appointment, imo.

I do wish people would stop seeing these selections as biased towards a "system", when the simplest answer is just that the standard of coaching to bring players on with the skills to be successful is better at Leinster than at the other provinces. Would Balacoune be a better player at Leinster? Probably, but I think it'd be because he'd be getting better coaching and development, rather than just naturally being a "fit for the system".

aloooof · 31-05-2023 10:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656636#Comment_120656636

Had an opportunity to go back to find the stats from this post I was talking about which you might find interesting, AT.

With regards Europe:

He played 80 mins in each of the 4 European games, and over them he's averaging:

14.8 carries per game
51.3 metres
17 tackles
1.3 turnovers
And a try a game

With regards Leinster:

1st game in the Aviva, with a depleted Munster, he got a brilliant assist, and made 14 carries and 10 tackles.
Game in Thomond: 23 carries, a turnover, and a try.
SF in the Aviva: 20 carries, 17 tackles and a turnover.

So your contention that

...he hasn't stood out against the best opposition. Be against Leinster, or teams in the HC.

Nah.

aloooof · 31-05-2023 10:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664144#Comment_120664144

But we've no idea if Dan MacFarland is asking him to do it.

In which case, he could be doing exactly what his Provincial coach wants him to do, but it's still a criticism of him for not doing it? I dunno...

Red Silurian · 31-05-2023 10:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663454#Comment_120663454

If I did it might be showing provincial bias so I better not

31-05-2023 10:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663939#Comment_120663939

Fair enough, anyone can have a difference of opinion. I was just illustrating that the idea that playing for leinster helps with ireland selection isn’t only a niche non leinster fan online opinion.

31-05-2023 10:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664172#Comment_120664172

20 carries and 17 tackles, jesus christ.

Coombes is an absolute workhorse that doesn’t really have a similar role to guys on the ireland team.

TRC10 · 31-05-2023 10:39PM

Surely the fact that Calvin Nash has been brought in ahead of already capped guys like Larmour and Baloucoune proves that there's really no grand conspiracy against Munster players, and that they can play their way into the squad if they sufficiently impress the coaches? Coombes getting dropped in November for Deegan but now being ahead of him also proves this. Frisch and Daly were on the same EI tour that Nash was on, so had the same opportunity to impress the coaches that Nash had.

leakyboots · 31-05-2023 10:46PM

Great post Alooof, some people just don't want to admit Coombes is a very good player, despite stats and performances pointing that way for a couple of seasons now.

Started this season late due to injury and had a slight dip, got left out after a poor performance (rightly, I wish Farrell had done the same with other underperformers such as Conan last year for e.g.) and it seems to have defined him by some on here.

aloooof · 31-05-2023 10:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664270#Comment_120664270

I think people just see his try-scoring record from 5m out and assume he's a bruiser, whereas in reality he's a really good passer and brilliant offloader as well. Great jackaller too.

We haven't really missed CJ at all with some of the performance he's been putting in.

cuttingtimber22 · 31-05-2023 10:59PM

I think that Farrell should sit down all the wingers (in fact the whole squad) and show them Earls performance for the last 20 mins or so last week. Making things happen in attack and massive work in defence. The good news for Ireland is that both Daly and Nash are learning from him.

31-05-2023 10:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664237#Comment_120664237

People aren’t claiming a grand conspiracy. They are claiming that playing for Leinster is advantageous when it comes to Ireland selection. In fact its pretty obvious that is the case. So, obvious that Kinsella throws it out on a podcast to ZERO protest.

Brief_Lives · 31-05-2023 11:10PM

limk?

31-05-2023 11:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664388#Comment_120664388

I think its on any podcast platform. 42 rugby weekly podcast. Maybe its a members one. If it is, i wrote exactly what he said a few comments above.

leakyboots · 31-05-2023 11:31PM

I'm so angry about the squad announcement I think I'll ring Liveline

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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