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Air Corps SAR

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Would they still use the same type helicopter at all four bases?

    AFAIK there are five S92s, to allow the rotation of one at a time through maintenance while still having one at all four bases.

    This maintainence schedule is straightforward if all helicopters are the same but woud need all crew trained and certified on more than one model if they were not all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It would still double the overhead for all pilots to maintain type rating on two models.

    It's far less complicated (maintenance, pilot rating, operational capabilities) to have all helicopters the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Are Shannon & Sligo locked as the west coast bases or could Bristow have bases out of the other 4 west coast airports if they got better deal?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,043 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    Because otherwise you'll need two spares to cover the two models, otherwise at least one crew needs to be dual type-rated?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    The coast guard currently have five S92 medium lift helicopters, EI-ICG, EI-ICU, EI-ICA, EI-ICS, EI-ICD. At any one time four are operational and one available for redundancy or scheduled maintenance.

    Say at the moment EI-ICG, EI-ICU, EI-ICA, EI-ICS are operational and EI-ICD is undergoing scheduled maintenance.

    EI-ICG is rotated out for scheduled maintenance and replaced by EI-ICD.

    When EI-ICG maintenance is complete, EI-ICU is rotated out for scheduled maintenance and replaced by EI-ICG

    etc...

    Any one helicopter isn't tied to a particular base. Over time any or all helicopters may rotate through all bases.

    Therefore all SAR pilots would need to be type rated for all helicopter types used.

    There's operational efficiencies in using all the same type helicopter, operational flexibility, pilots, crew, maintenance, spare parts that would need strong reasons to depart from.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Cork,Farrenfore,Knock and carrickfinn. I am sure they would all welcome a paying customer who would be there for the next 10/13 years. CHC had a dispute with sligo over fees only a few years ago and threatend to move the base.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,043 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    And it's the ambulance ferry-service from the islands off Galway and Donegal which produce a good proportion of the call-outs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Will the Air Corps now push to get Aircraft for Top Cover in 5 years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    How long did the procurements for the PC12s and CASAs take? How long will it take to build out the personnel numbers to support another 24/7 tasking?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    3 Years?.It also depends on what type of aircraft you want for the role



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Air Corps even used the Learjet in the past for Top Cover



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Are you counting from order to delivery or are you talking about all the time before that while the project was being debated (see the MRV for the ultimate example of that), if the AC is going to take over Top Cover in 5 years then MM is going to have to order the ball to start rolling now for that to be possible imo, and given how “slow” things are going as is…

    I stand by my view that the “5 years” is to throw a bone to those that were demanding that the AC should be doing it all, but in 5 years time we will be told “well the private contractor is already doing it”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Say they went with a business jet. They would need 2 pilots and 1 comms person in the rear. So to make that 24/7 what would you need a pool of 30 crew to allow for Leave and sickness. I dont know what numbers you would need to maintain the aircraft but you would need at least 2 aircraft. I believe the air corps could get that together in 5 years easily.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    How are we on establishment right now? How many pilots do we have in the pipeline?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I dont know but you have to have a bit of faith in the organisation that there is a drive to get projects done. They would not have made a pitch for the two world food programme casas if not



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    How did faith work out for the extra hull for the NS? Hell how did the attempt to get the CASAs work out, or the extra PC12 that was on offer?

    In an ideal or even semi normal attitude to defence I’d say buy 3 Falcons, use one for government needs and everything else, and have 2 for top cover and support for other duties. But that’s not the situation we have with Irish defence is it? The reality is we are under strength as is and supping out training to other nations to try and reduce the shortages and only a few years ago we had issues manning the medical flight, so the idea of rapidly scaling up to support a Top Cover within 5 years isn’t likely. Certainly not with the abject failure to address any of the retention issues already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The detailed contract talks that will be now held between the state and Bristow. Will that be about aircraft type and rates for extra no core work?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    To me it goes hand in hand, given the lead times for most equipment procurement we have the time to scale the people up, but buying the equipment and hoping the powers that be figure out that more people are needed hasn’t worked out for us so far?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,408 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    "Build it and they will come!"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I taught the existing CHC staff would transfer straight over to Bristow simlar to wjat happened with the Gas Networks contract when it changed. But it appers jobs are not guaranted under this type of contract. Presume that There will be a deal done with existing staff as there cant be that many SAR trained crew around the world not working




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,807 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It's an odd interpretation of the regulations in that article. I believe the description that the 'business or part of the business must be being sold' for TUPE to apply is wrong.

    I have sat on assessment panels for public tenders for services down the years and a change of contractor to deliver the same or similar service would always require TUPE accommodation of existing staff.

    And such transfers of service under public sector contracts would happen by the tens of thousands, all over Europe, every year. So it's a well worn path.

    If Bristow find a more efficient model to deliver the same service, then they can institute redundancies after they take over, but those redundancies would be calculated on the duration of pre-existing service with CHC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I suppouse time will tell. If Bristow change the type of aircraft they will use. How will that work for training to ensure there is no gap in service when they take over. Would the crews have to get trained on the new aircraft before bristow take over the contract in 18 months



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,807 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It's almost routine now to see a high court challenge to large public contracts by the runner-up. And so the loser ultimately is the taxpayer, who has to defend all of them.

    There needs to be some sort of independent review body, like the Labour Court but for procurement, where a panel is assembled of expert practitioners and these things can be adjudicated without filling the high court lists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I presume this will need to be sorted quick as it will take bristow the full 18 months to get set up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,043 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    Not good for the morale of the existing crews. I do hope that it's completed in a swift manner and doesn't become fractious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    You would think the Unions would be able to find out very quickly from the state the status of the contracts weather all the crews will transfer to a new operator. There should be no guessing about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It’s not just limited to us, you only have to look at pretty much any defence contract particularly in the US to see such legal action after a tender no matter what. I’m sure if we were handing out any big contracts for non domestic procurement we would see the same.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,043 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    This type of reaction might make the DoD think harder about staffing SAR with contractors over Irish Air Corp.



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