Air Corps SAR

sparky42

Since it maybe behind a paywall heres the full article:

[QUOTE]

A “minimum requirement” of three helicopters for a new search-and-rescue contract has prompted concerns that a helicopter base in Waterford will be cut as part of the new service.

In December the Department of Transport issued a tender for the renewal of aviation services for Irish Coast Guard. The contract will cost about €800 million.

At present the contract for the helicopter fleet and service is between the Department of Transport and CHC Ireland DAC, a civil helicopter operator. CHC operates a fleet of four Sikorsky S-92 helicopters from Shannon, Sligo, Dublin and Waterford. It is responsible for search-and-rescue (SAR) missions around Ireland.

The tender does not say where the “minimum” three helicopters should be based, with public representatives in Waterford expressing fear that its base will be cut under any new contract.

Matt Shanahan, an independent TD from Waterford, said: “My core concern is how a three-helicopter solution gives us the same service as the four-helicopter solution. If you are operating three helicopters as opposed to four it is impossible to have the same operating range as a four-base solution.”

He added: “Why fix something that is not broken?”

There was controversy in 2020 when the government declined to commit to allowing the Air Corps to participate in the forthcoming tender. Following political pressure, Simon Coveney, the defence minister, said he wanted to see the Air Corps included in any new service provision.

The new tender states: “Discussions are ongoing with the Irish Air Corps in relation to potential provision of the fixed-wing element of the services. As such, the services contract will provide that the fixed-wing element [airplane] will cease on the third anniversary of the commencement of the services contract in the event the Air Corps is in a position to provide the fixed-wing element.”

Cathal Berry, an independent TD who served in the Defence Forces, said there was no reason the Air Corps could not provide the service when the new contract began as it was due to get two new airplanes to be able to provide the appropriate services.

A motion on the tender will be debated in the Dail in the new term, with the regional TD seeking to have the tender paused while a review is conducted. It says that the Department of Transport has failed to state clearly its “strategic requirements” as part of the tender and warns that this may result in legal action.

David Cullinane, a Sinn Fein TD from Waterford, said he did not want to “talk up” the possibility of Waterford losing one of the bases. However, he has arranged a meeting for all southeast Oireachtas representatives today to discuss the tender document.

He said public representatives would focus on demonstrating the need for the base to remain in Waterford over the course of the tender process. Cullinane also said that Hildegarde Naughton, the junior transport minister, should appear before the transport committee to discuss the tender process.

A spokesman for the Department of Transport said the tender set out a “minimum requirement” of three helicopters, but “bidders can propose more”. He added: “The number of bases and their location are not specified, and proposals will be reviewed on their merits in relation to their ability to respond in a timely manner.”[/QUOTE]

Berry is still talking shite imo about the AC being able to provide the fixe wing with the new 295's, while their service rates will be much better than the 235's, it's still just two airframes with plenty of other taskings.

Larbre34

So really, the talk of cutting an SAR base is not even a thing.

These procurement documents are in line with thousands of others issued across Government, in that they have a baseline established by the Client.

This means the Department of Transport know it will take four bases / helicopters to fulfill the service, but they have set the minimum at three, to avoid stupid tenders being received from obscure operations around the World saying, "sure we can cover the Country with TWO choppers for you boss!"

I'm all too familiar with sitting on tender assessment panels for various services and seeing absolute time wasters submitting any auld shyte for very detailed and complex multi-annual contracts. So this document has been framed to weed that out early on and only attract serious operators.

I would make an educated guess, that given the existing contract and also any new analysis of the area of operations by a potential contractor, no tenderer will seek to carry out that service with any less than 4 units.

Not to mind the obvious issues of range and response time, which we are all aware of, but if some incident were to happen during the term of the Contract, and that incident was found to have been exacerbated by insufficient coverage, despite the Contractor having promised X level of response, then the legal exposure of that Contractor could be existential.

That's not to say Waterford would automatically remain. In fact, for my money, Cork is a far better option, Co-located with a higher classification airfield and superior navigation and handling facilities.

sparky42

More politics on the issue:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/feared-loss-of-rescue-117-prompts-south-east-tds-to-seek-urgent-meeting-with-minister-1244599.html

Given the numbers the Government has, I can see them wanting an upset on this.

Larbre34

A simple briefing note from the DoT would diffuse this.

The new contract will be well in place and operating before the next General Election.

roadmaster

You would have to wonder whats really going on here

roadmaster

Good man Eamon already interfearing in a tender. He says in the clip below he does not expect waterford to lose a SAR base. Is it not up to the companies to propose bases?

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2022/0119/1274538-waterford-airport/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501554#Comment_118501554

As soon as it became a political football, of course he was going to stick his fingers in.

Larbre34

And as a fella who nails airshots literally every time he trys to play football, he should be kept bound and gagged in a locker at the back of the dressing room. Metaphorically speaking.

This could have been dealt with so easily with a statement.

1) The Department has established a baseline of operational service requirements and issued an RFT

2) The State cannot, under procurement law, restrict the RFT to very specific terms of service. This would be anti-competitive.

3) The tender is now live and will not be discussed by the client (the Department) until initial assessments are made following the closing date.

4) The Department will report in the post-tender stage to the Government and to the Committee on Transport and Communications of the Oireachtas, prior to any final recommendation to the Minister to accept any of the tenders, or none.

roadmaster

So the 1st RFI Bristow and CHC send in is do we have to a base in waterford?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118508127#Comment_118508127

They can't really.

They can ask for any stats held by the State that might contribute to their assessment of that issue, but the tender proposal for adequate coverage will have to come from them.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509393#Comment_118509393

The problem is this is now political. What happens if the companies come back and say we can do it with 3 bases in Dublin , Shannon and sligo. That will not fly in the south east the government TDs would be toast

Larbre34

I'd be shocked if anyone came back and said they could do it with three, because even a cursory analysis of type range and loiter would show huge gaps in coverage I'm guessing. Not to mention backup and substitution for long and complex taskings.

It might be political for the politicians, so to speak, but I couldn't imagine this actually capturing the voters attention ahead of housing and health and economic investment. It has always been about adequate hospital services for Waterford.

shillyshilly

I agree that 4 bases are necessary for optimum fast response cover.. it was assessed before that this was a requirement..

But I feel the Air Corp's have contributed to the 3 base option, as previously, they were supposed to provide top cover, but the Casa was usually unavailable for various reasons, meaning a helo from another base was dispatched to provide top cover (usually R116 as there is more than enough overlapping coverage from HMCG bases to cover the Irish sea).

If they go with a 3 base option, I can see whoever pitching for it adding in a drone option as top cover.... whether that drone is based in Ireland is another thing also...

Unfortunately, with a lot of overlapping coverage from the UK, covering a lot of Dublin and Waterford's area of operation, the bean counters will be looking at this aspect and not from the point of view of loiter and response times...

Isn't there a private SAR element in the Gas fields? I vaguely remember something being mentioned before that this could be called upon if needed...

The Air Corps can be included in the competition, but I don't think they have a chance of being in the final deal personally, and it's their own doing...

it's a race to the bottom, and it's not a good thing for safety

jonnybigwallet

Hear hear!

roadmaster

Ill find the link latter but according to leo in the dail yesterday the 4 bases will remain

Larbre34

"We would anticipate that the outcome will be that there will continue to be four bases, and it will be the same four bases. Waterford, Sligo, Cork and Dublin. There is a contractual process underway - it does have to follow some procedure. I hope that can give some people reassurance that the government is very happy with the services at the moment, and we would not like to see them diminished."

Varadkar speaking on Thursday.

He's alluding to the baseline in the tender documents, when he says " procedure", he probably should just have explained that and fully calmed down the mob from Waterford.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516084#Comment_118516084

I don't know of any drones that can deploy life rafts and do inter-hospital transfers as outlined in the tender documents.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523771#Comment_118523771

I imagine Bristow will include the Hermes UAV, like they are expecting to for the HMCG contract renewal, life raft and top cover covered from that aspect..

7.5.2020 - Elbit adds life-raft drop capability to the Hermes 900 - ABG Strategic Consulting (abg-scportal.com)

inter hospital transfers are already undertaken by CG helo's with Air Corps supplementing or do you mean international? Air Corps helos and I imagine PC-12's would be used in that case, on a case by case air ambulance basis.

sparky42

Well this might be the end of the storm in the teacup...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/department-of-transport-amends-search-and-rescue-tender-to-cover-four-existing-bases-1248270.html

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524166#Comment_118524166

Drones are not an option. The required specifications of the fixed wing element cannot be fulfilled by a drone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531409#Comment_118531409

Good. It was always just a minimum requirement that was never going to be enough to fulfill the range and coverage requirements in the tender. Storm in a teacup indeed.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531409#Comment_118531409

People power!! ( Or Tds scared of losing there seats)

roadmaster

Tenders are back in tomorrow. It be interesting to see what fixed wing aircraft the contractors will offer i presume it will have to be one with a ramp so it can drop life rafts

xper

Would it be cost effective and feasible for an applicant to propose acquiring the Air Corps’ two current Casa aircraft for the fixed wing element (which I assume would involve fewer flying hours/wk)? Would the -295 delivery schedule line up?

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609433#Comment_118609433

No. They are 20 years old or more, and have spent their lives working at low altitude over salt water. It would be cheaper for them to buy new. The 235s will need a lot of money to keep them operational in their current environment past their expected date of retirement.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609639#Comment_118609639

Even with the upgrade the got a few years ago are they one there last legs? Could a few years be got out if them if they be stripped and used for transport as interm measure until new transport aircraft are got?

xper

I would suspect as much, but just had a thought.

Out of curiosity, how often has the life raft been deployed from a Casa in a real rescue operation and how often has it actualy been used by a rescuee? It strikes me as a niche scenario, a better to have it and not need it item.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609657#Comment_118609657

I have seen it done during a demonstration, but I have not heard of it being used in practice here. When you have cas in the water though, and their own raft has failed (happens more frequently than you would think, unfortunately) and the Fixed wing is first on scene, dropping the raft can be the actual difference between life and death. It also makes a cas in the water far easier to locate by subsequent rescue helis or ships.

Stovepipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609173#Comment_118609173

Aircraft can be configured to drop liferafts without ramps and have done so for decades. The raft is ejected from an internal chute and descends under a parachute. They can also drop flares or SAR beacons from launch tubes (Air Corps Casa) or even open a window and drop them out by hand (Air Corps Casa again), albeit at low level. Some aircraft carry liferafts for ramp launch, as you say.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609653#Comment_118609653

They’ve been rezero what twice now? I think I remember during the coverage of they not being operational for the R116 crash that even CASA think they should be retired by now.

spark23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609948#Comment_118609948

They where never rexzeroed.