Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

thomas 123 · 30-05-2023 02:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657914#Comment_120657914

I think the trick is to keep him away if we want to win anything!

30-05-2023 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658099#Comment_120658099

Something like they can't be anywhere near the squad before getting called up, and once they do get called up there's a 48 hour stand down period that must pass before they can play. So bar the player being jetlagged it doesn't matter where the world cup is, as you can travel anywhere within 48 hours regardless.

Quin_Dub · 30-05-2023 02:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658177#Comment_120658177

I think they can't even be in the country before joining the squad - So Ireland couldn't have a "shadow panel" training away at some other base in France for example.

whatawaster · 30-05-2023 02:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658137#Comment_120658137

Hasn't he closed out every win we've had against the all-blacks? Or am I imagining that? We might need him for a QF

Former Former Former · 30-05-2023 03:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658108#Comment_120658108

Haley for me is the big omission. Whos the FB cover?

Jimmy O'Brien, Jamie Osborne, and if we're stuck, Frawley or Crowley.

30-05-2023 03:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658225#Comment_120658225

JOB is the only really credible replacement.

PMC83 · 30-05-2023 03:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658206#Comment_120658206

Well he has tbf, but then he didn't make the 6 nations squad and fell down to 3rd choice in his club. Today you'd have to say Crowley would be closing out that game, and maybe starting it if Sexton is out.

30-05-2023 03:06PM

I’ve actually realized what is weird to me about the selections. Very little contingency selection. Like, some of the fringe guys picked are guys who just don’t seem to have the experience necessary to actually be expected to step in with injuries.

Former Former Former · 30-05-2023 03:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658242#Comment_120658242

Yep. I don't really want to see Osborne lining out at 15 in a World Cup.

But equally JOB is very much second choice behind Keenan and Haley's lack of versatility might have cost him.

SlowChris · 30-05-2023 03:10PM

Will there be any games played using this squad?

30-05-2023 03:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658250#Comment_120658250

This is the thing for me that's unusual in some positions - like if Van der Flier is hurt in one of the opening games like Tonga, we won't have even had Hodnett, Penny, Connors or Timoney as part of this squad, and in some cases they've either never been part of the squad (Hodnett), fleetingly been part of it (Penny) and not in years (Connors).

It seems unusual to me that he didn't just pick 45 players and just add another openside, loose head and out half.

30-05-2023 03:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658258#Comment_120658258

I’d agree with that but I’d say it should have cost him for the final squad. For this squad it would be useful to get him up to speed so that if something happened later he was available.

30-05-2023 03:23PM

It's interesting to look back at some of the more recent squads and see the guys who have missed out:

NZ Tour Summer 2022 (40 man squad): Dave Heffernan (hooker), Jeremy Loughman (LHP), Nick Timoney (back row), Joey Carbery (out half), Harry Byrne (out half), James Hume (centre), Jordan Larmour (wing), Michael Lowry (full back) - all picked in that squad, and missing now.

November International Series 2022 (37 man squad): Robert Baloucoune (Wing), Carbery, Lowry, Heffernan, Loughman, Timoney.

A Panel 2022: Tom Ahern (second row), Diarmuid Barron (hooker), Shane Daly (wing), Max Deegan (back row), Hume, Marty Moore (THP), Scott Penny (back row), Roman Salanoa (THP)

Six Nations 2023 (37 man squad, with 9 call ups): Larmour (wing). Call ups: Salanoa, Michael Milne (LHP), Penny, Timoney, Carbery.

So, it's clear it's changed quite a lot from the squad that toured NZ, but not hugely from the 6N. Some absences are more understandable, i.e. Heffernan has been surpassed by a healthy again Ronan Kelleher and the emerging Tom Stewart.

Other guys though have just clearly fallen way out of favour: a lot of Ulster guys (Timoney, Hume, Lowry, Baloucoune), and then Carbery, Loughman, Larmour. Of those latter three, it's Loughman's absence I find the most surprising.

pickarooney · 30-05-2023 03:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658198#Comment_120658198

I doubt they could enforce that. They'd have to put the entire French extended squad into exile!

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-05-2023 03:25PM

Given that this is a training squad I expected to see 2 more props picked (1lh probably Loughman and 1 th probably Salonoa or Archer).

I also expected to see a 4th 10.

Hodnet and Kleyn could have made it too. Perhaps dropping Treadwell.

I also wonder why it's a 42 man squad. I believe they need to submit papers for 50 players for the rwc around now from which a 33 man squad will be selected. I wonder who those 8 will be.

theVersatile · 30-05-2023 03:25PM

A third choice Munster player keeping out the highly rated Leinster youngster - how the tables have turned! (Killer and Milne, in case ye are confused).

Few odd selections, but Farrell's results have earned him a right not to be questioned (for now anyways, if things go pear shaped then the noise can begin!)

30-05-2023 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658339#Comment_120658339

I also wonder why it's a 42 man squad. I believe they need to submit papers for 50 players for the rwc around now from which a 33 man squad will be selected. I wonder who those 8 will be.

Jeremy Loughman, Roman Salanoa, Jean Kleyn, John Hodnett, Max Deegan, Will Connors, Jordan Larmour, Sam Prendergast (😉)

30-05-2023 03:36PM

I think there's an argument to be made that Dan McFarland's sloppy coaching has kind of let down the national side in this instance too - all four of Michael Lowry, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume and Nick Timoney when at their best are good enough to be in this squad and pushing for places, and all were at points in recent years.

However, where you can clearly see visible improvement in players at the other three provinces this season and in recent years, I would argue those guys are regressing. The guys who put their hands up this season at Ulster were really young guys who are just in or around the first team for the first time (Tom Stewart, Harry Sheridan etc) or very seasoned old pros like McCloskey. That's an indictment of McFarland and co IMO.

thomas 123 · 30-05-2023 03:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658206#Comment_120658206

He has been very very poor for Munster. Players should be playing based on form and recent merit not times gone bye.

whatawaster · 30-05-2023 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658455#Comment_120658455

To be clear, I'm not advocating Carbery to be in the squad. My point was that, should Sexton get injured and one of Crowley/Byrne go down too, there are worse positions to be in than calling up an experienced player like Carbery, who knows the setup, knows the systems and has experience in big matches.

For me its:

Sexton
Crowley
Byrne, R
Carbery
Byrne, H

realhorrorshow · 30-05-2023 04:02PM

From the squad selected I would go with the below, but would probably select another openside if there was one.

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne, Porter

HK: Herring, Kelleher, Sheehan

TH: Bealham, Furlong, O'Toole

LK: Baird, Beirne, Henderson, McCarthy, Ryan

BR: Conan, Coombes, Doris, O'Mahony, van der Flier

SH: Casey, Gibson-Park, Murray

OH: Byrne, Crowley, Sexton

CT: Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose

B3: Hansen, Keenan, Lowe, Nash, O'Brien

TRC10 · 30-05-2023 04:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658108#Comment_120658108

Whos the FB cover?

O'Brien. Fairly obvious. Hansen, Frawley, Crowley, Osborne, Stockdale being break glass options. Keenan has been pretty indestructible since his debut. Don't think he's missed any games through injury. We'll be fine at 15.

TRC10 · 30-05-2023 04:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658529#Comment_120658529

O'Mahony is the 2nd choice openside

RichieRich_89 · 30-05-2023 04:13PM

I don't quite get why he has three 8s, two specialist blindsides as well as Baird and Beirne who can cover there and then only one openside. Why not add Hodnett, homme du match from the URC Grand Final?

And Kilcoyne ahead of Leinsterman Jeremy Loughman is a dubious call.

But Farrell has so much credit in the bank; let's see what he does with the squad.

realhorrorshow · 30-05-2023 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658559#Comment_120658559

Yes, but he is also potentially first choice blindside and would be wary of him being overworked. Haven't worked out the permutations but I assume one of he or VDF is going to have to put up serious minutes in the group stage

Wegians89 · 30-05-2023 04:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658529#Comment_120658529

People are sleeping on Prendergast. I find it far more likely he’ll travel over Coombes. But if they see Baird as a six there’s a good chance it’ll be McCarthy heading over both prendergast and coombes. There is no need for three 8’s in a small squad.

Think they will only bring four locks and an extra back, guessing Frawley. Also feel Earls will be brought over Nash, this will probably have more to do with Earls personality in camp than playing ability.

AbusesToilets · 30-05-2023 05:09PM

Can't see Earls being picked at all, his race is run. Coombes is probably the 4th best 8 in the country at the moment.

TRC10 · 30-05-2023 05:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658589#Comment_120658589

He won't be overworked. That's purely an Irish obsession. They'll share the minutes v Romania and Tonga.

cuttingtimber22 · 30-05-2023 05:15PM

Well one thing for sure is that it is not a form selection.

TRC10 · 30-05-2023 05:21PM

It's pretty clear that Loughman and Carbery aren't selected because they weren't in Blackrock for long enough.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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