Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

29-05-2023 02:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654118#Comment_120654118

How the **** would playing with a ton of the same backline in a similar system not be an advantage in selection?

Provincial blinders or just complete lack of knowledge of how rugby works?

Must love hardship · 29-05-2023 02:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654112#Comment_120654112

Its also worth noting that since the Sharks mauled munster in the champions cup. They have played South African opposition 3 times and Murray has started 3 times and casey has gotten a combined total of less than 30 minutes in those 3 games. I think they identified they needed a more physical player at 9 too against that opposition

Former Former Former · 29-05-2023 02:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654147#Comment_120654147

See my ninja edit above. Crowley has had plenty of time to pick up the Ireland system (more than Byrne in fact).

If he can't figure it out, as you assert, then that's a pretty damning indictment of his ability. I disagree though, I think he'll be fine.

29-05-2023 02:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654166#Comment_120654166

He played one game for ireland where the 9 skipped him for an entire half. He obviously has not picked up the system. And i wouldn’t expect him to in that amount of game time in that system with those players.

Munster and Leinster do not play similar systems and Leinster’s is WAY WAY closer to Ireland’s system with almost all the same players. Of course Byrne would have more familiarity.

I’m going to guess provincial blinders on this one.

29-05-2023 02:55PM

People know this will work the other way too right? If casey and crowley are ireland 9/10 two years from now, it is then relatively easier for munster backs to get in the team.

They would perform better because their half backs are better, they would have better chemistry and the system would probably start skewing that way. Not the absolute deciding factor but absolutely a factor.

AbusesToilets · 29-05-2023 03:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654078#Comment_120654078

Murray is still far too slow. A lot of good carries in the final were wasted because he took an age behind the rucks. He certainly improved playing in green this past year, but I wouldn't want him starting at all.

leakyboots · 29-05-2023 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654239#Comment_120654239

I suspect if that does come to pass that reason won't wash on here all of a sudden! 😄

Former Former Former · 29-05-2023 03:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654190#Comment_120654190

This skit about the nasty Leinster boys not playing nice with little Jack absolutely cracks me up. Utterly shameless.

Crowley has been in Ireland camp for long enough, plus the Emerging Ireland tour, to know exactly what he should be doing. I think he's good enough to do so, but you don't.

You're accusing me of provincial blinders when you're the one dumping all over the guy from your own province. I think he's doing fine.

29-05-2023 04:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654484#Comment_120654484

I don’t really understand if you are intentionally misunderstanding or if you are dense.

JGP skipped him cos the coaches told him to. I thought that was obvious.

An EI tour and starting one game will not get you anywhere close to comfortable enough to run the system as well as someone like byrne who plays with all the same players in almost the same system. The very fact that he was on an emerging ireland tour in the same year shows that as well. They see him as a developmental player. Of course though he would be farther along if he played in a similar system and with tons of irish players every week with his club.

How in the name of christ is this a controversial thing to say? Can you like step back and just think about it for a second.

Akrasia · 29-05-2023 05:01PM

If there are a bunch of players selected tomorrow who have never played European or Knockout rugby and the likes of Hodnett and Kleyn are left out, then it's an awful omen for the RWC in 6 months time

ionadnapóca · 29-05-2023 05:04PM

Will Carbery get picked in the training squad?

I saw his name pop up as part of the 30 man travelling squad to Cape Town.

I hadn't heard his name mentioned at Munster since his last game v Sharks

22 v Sharks 8mins. Crowley 10/12, 72/8mins - April 1st

10 v Glasgow 62mins. Crowley 12/10, 62/18mins – MAR 25th

10 v Scarlets 53mins. Crowley 22, 27mins – MAR 3rd

10/15 v Ospreys 53/27mins. G.Scott 22, 27mins – FEB 17th

10/15 v Benetton 30/50mins. G.Scott 22, 50mins – JAN 28th

10 v Toulouse 50mins. G.Scott 22, 20mins. Crowley 12/10, 70/10mins – JAN 22nd

DROPPED from IRELAND Squad – JANUARY 19th

RESTED v Lions. Great Scott 10, 80mins – JAN 6th

RESTED v Ulster. Crowley 10, 80mins – JAN 1st

10 v Leinster 64mins. Crowley 12, 80mins – DEC 26th

10 v Northampton 69mins. Crowley 12, 54mins – DEC 18th

10 v Toulouse 80mins. Crowley 22, 29mins – DEC 11th

10 v Edinburgh 80mins. Crowley 22, 23mins – DEC 2nd

10 v Connacht 80mins. Crowley 22, 38mins – NOV 26th

IRELAND: v Aus Crowley 10 73mins. Hero Byrne 22, 7mins – NOV 19th

IRELAND: 10 v Fiji HIA 46mins Replaced by Crowley – NOV 12th

IRELAND: 22 v SA 3mins – NOV 5th

Carbery hasn't played in 8 weeks. & only 123mins in the last 14 weeks. Harry Byrne has played 422mins in the last 14 weeks.

If I was taking a punt on the training squad: Sexton, Crowley, Byrne x2

Former Former Former · 29-05-2023 05:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654621#Comment_120654621

You think it's "obvious" that in Carbery's absence, Farrell looked past the guy who, according to you, could have just slotted in seamlessly because "the system", then went out on a limb to pick a guy with who was still in single figures for provincial starts... and then told the other players that they weren't to pass to him?!

That is not remotely plausible. It was an invention to explain away a pretty average performance by Crowley.

You have a very, very low opinion of Crowley. Why do you think he is incapable of playing in the Ireland system?

29-05-2023 05:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654775#Comment_120654775

I think its obvious they overlooked byrne because he isn’t really an international talent but they don’t have anyone else with enough experience in the system or just experience in general this close to the world cup. They gave up on carbery because he has been poor for a long time.

Your POV is that there would be no difference in Crowley’s readiness to play for ireland if he played for leinster vs munster. That’s ridiculous on its face.

You just are a fan and anything that you see as against your province is a grievance that you need to fight.

I never said Crowley played well against Australia or that he should start now. Can you introduce me to the person you are arguing against? Because it isn’t me.

AbusesToilets · 29-05-2023 06:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654745#Comment_120654745

Nah, it probably means the coaches think they are better players, with higher ceilings, or bring more to the team.

Neil3030 · 29-05-2023 06:40PM

Anybody got stats on Crowley vs Byrne, place-kicking accuracy, this season?

I reckon that's about the only dimension Byrne might still be ahead.

Otherwise, Byrne will not be selected just because he's the "safe" option. That's not how Faz has played, nor succeeded, with this Irish team. It's not how Munster won the URC.

stephen_n · 29-05-2023 08:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655104#Comment_120655104

Crowleys percentage for the URC was 63% think Byrnes was mid 80’s somewhere. It was 85% for the ERC. Kicking is definitely one thing that might hamper Crowleys chances.

Former Former Former · 29-05-2023 08:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655104#Comment_120655104

In fairness to Ross Byrne, he had a fantastic season and Farrell won't forget that based on the LAR game.

Whichever of them gets the nod will be the guy who performs better for Farrell between now and September.

So if that's Byrne, it's because he's the better option. Not safer, nothing to do with systems, nothing to do with Lancaster. Likewise if it's Crowley, we'll know he's backed up his club form with displays in the camps and that would be awesome too.

It's great to have genuine options. Assuming the loser is still travelling as third choice, we will be a lot better off than in 2019.

leakyboots · 29-05-2023 09:21PM

Would love see Kleyn get rewarded with a call-up, he's been phenomenal for Munster this year. Haley, Coombes and Hodnett might get a look-in also.

Akrasia · 29-05-2023 09:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655414#Comment_120655414

Crowley's professional career kicking percentage is over 80% up to the URC semi final

But he has only taken just under 50 kicks

If you look at individual comps, the numbers are so low that they're heavily skewed by a small number of kicks

Ross Byrne's career average kicking percentage is also, just about 80%

TRC10 · 29-05-2023 10:58PM

Quiz time

Will northern Englishman Andy Farrell be selecting the Ireland squad based on...

A) What he and his coaching staff think gives Ireland the best chance of winning a World Cup

B) His love of those privately educated South Dublin schoolboys

Those who guess the right answer win a lifetime supply of flat whites and a €100 Donnybrook Fair voucher

phog · 29-05-2023 11:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655627#Comment_120655627

I've been mentioning Haley's & Kleyn's names that should be in the squad but Coombes & Hodnett wouldn't be out of place there either

Definitely the last few weeks must have stood to them.

AbusesToilets · 30-05-2023 08:12AM

Haven't seen anything from Coombes that would suggest he's good enough for a spot. Just an extremely whelming player

aloooof · 30-05-2023 08:23AM

Isn’t it a 45 man squad? Coombes will obviously be in it. If you can’t see what he brings, then I don’t know what to tell ya…

AbusesToilets · 30-05-2023 08:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656484#Comment_120656484

I haven't seen anything particularly noteworthy from him. In comparison to other players like Prendergast or Deegan, he doesn't stand out in games at all. Penny scores as many tries as him, but don't think he warrants a spot either.

Former Former Former · 30-05-2023 08:38AM

Coombes will definitely be named today.

I think Hodnett could well miss out and that will be the one that upsets people.

Musicrules · 30-05-2023 08:39AM

After Ross Byrne's bottle job against La Rochelle, I wouldn't like to see him near the team at the world cup. There were other internationals who bottled it as well which isn't a good sign. We're one of the favourites to win the World Cup and rightfully so. This is our time to do it so Farrell's most important job is selecting players with the right character and working on the mental side of things. We have to learn lessons from previous World Cup chokes.

sydthebeat · 30-05-2023 08:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656522#Comment_120656522

What a very strange post

whatawaster · 30-05-2023 09:04AM

Barring injuries, the 23 we will be looking to field in the WC will be near identical to that which played most of the 6N. The same team that won a series in NZ, are ranked #1 in the world and just won a Grand Slam. Maybe there's 1 or 2 bolters into the wider squad, but with the depth we've built I kind of doubt it.

I get the calls for Hodnett to come in, but back row is probably our strongest position, both in terms of the quality of starters, and depth wise.

VDF and Doris have been two of the best in the world the last 2 years. O'Mahony has been amazing. Conan is a test lion and is back to his best form. I'm guessing we bring one more back row (with Baird and Beirne as 2nd rowers who can cover 6)? Prendergast probably the one in the drivers seat, but Hodnett has a shout. Then there's Timoney, Deegan and Coombes who could be in or around the wider squad.

Musicrules · 30-05-2023 09:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656550#Comment_120656550

How so? We should win this world cup, we've beaten everyone. New Zealand away, the grand slam, we've gone into world cups with expectations before and flopped, not this time. We're going to win the World Cup . We shouldn't accept anything less and the good thing is that the players/management won't either. No more chokes!

pickarooney · 30-05-2023 09:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656505#Comment_120656505

This is certainly a take... Between his tackling stats, his huge carrying numbers, his try-scoring, his passing and assisting, I don't know what else he'd need to do to stand out. He has occasionally looked like a flat-track bully in bigger games or in green where the team strategy isn't tailored around him the way it is at Munster but it's hard to fault him for that. I think he needs to be in as many camps as possible so Ireland can work out how best to use him and Coombes can learn to adapt a bit to a different system.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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