Over 70s GP visit card and charged for blood test

PattyL · 26-05-2023 05:41PM #1

I recently was awarded a GP visit card and when using it for the first time at my doctor's surgery was told I would still have to pay for my blood test for an ongoing Thyroid problem . The receptionist said she has diabetes and is only covered for two blood tests a year the rest she has to pay for herself. Is there anywhere I can find more information on what is actually covered on an over 70s GP visit card? I've checked citizens information website but it does not give exactly what is or is not covered as I'd like to be sure of my facts before I question this charge.

L1011 · 26-05-2023 05:47PM

This is a difficult one, and its probably easier to just read the reply to the parliamentary question than have me rephrase it.

Basically - lots of doctors charge for blood tests, and its really unclear as to whether they should or not. Pay and complain to the HSE is the recommendation.

Other services that require kit (monitors) or specialist skills etc aren't covered. There's a list of items that they can claim for if they provide to medical card holders - DVC holders should expect to pay for these. The card covers the visit element of bills. It also covers A&E costs if you go without referral.

The two goes a year for diabetics sounds like a mangling of the chronic condition management scheme where a surgery can get extra fees for up to two visits a year relating to certain chronic conditions for medical card/DVC holders.

26-05-2023 05:55PM

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/medical-cards-and-gp-visit-cards/gp-visit-cards/#:~:text=A%20GP%20visit%20card%20allows,GP%20out%20of%20hours%20services.

It definitely states for the GP visit over 70s card that blood tests to diagnose or monitor a condition are covered.

Maybe there is some limit as to how many blood tests the GP considers that are necessary for x or y condition, but if you believe you’ve got new symptoms that aren’t accounted for by an existent known condition, then you should definitely ask again. Re diabetes, doctors generally expect the patient themselves monitor and keep a record of their own blood sugars, there are apps to help keep track etc. the blood test the GP does a couple of times a year is to get a broad picture of how your blood work is.

TooTired123 · 26-05-2023 06:01PM

GP Cards cover your visit to the GP but not the cost of the prescription. The prescription cost is capped under the Drugs Payment Scheme.

The GPs are in a dispute with HSE over the bloods which has been going on for years and years.

Basically the HSE says that what your GP gets from them to care for you covers blood tests (the blood samples are taken to the lab by courier and he/she has to be paid) but the GPs say it is not. So your GP is charging you a nominal amount to bridge the gap.

Things your GP/Medical card doesn’t cover is for example anything like the Medical Report for a Driving Licence if you needed one. Or medical reports needed by you for anything really, say, life/holiday/health insurance. Or a medical report needed for legal reasons, say, if you are pursuing a compensation claim or are under investigation for something yourself.

GPs aren’t obliged to complete any of these forms at all but they will of course and will charge you whatever they like, the same as if you rang a plumber to come and unblock the sink.

I have heard of anything from €20 to €100 for the driving licence form and €130 upwards for the medical report forms that insurance companies send out.

Any Social Welfare medical reports that are needed completing are completed for free because the GPs are reimbursed for these.

What I would say to you is that if your GP is recommending that you take any extra medication or treatment or therapies or counselling etc that you should have no hesitation in asking your GP if it is covered under the medical card scheme.

PattyL · 26-05-2023 07:39PM

Much appreciate your replies - It's good to have this information and obviously not a straight forward situation!!

hawthorne · 26-05-2023 08:00PM

The 20 Euro charge is used to cover the transport costs of the blood sample. The sample itself is free and covered by the medical card.

Another way to extract money out of patients!

zell12 · 26-05-2023 08:00PM

I know my local GP does not charge for blood tests, but only if you bring it to the (local) laboratory yourself

gipi · 26-05-2023 09:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644087#Comment_120644087

Just for clarity, the Drugs Payment Scheme cap only applies to medicines on the DPS list. Anything prescribed that isn't on the list must be paid for. I pay 104 euro each month because one of my meds isn't covered (the GP didn't know this, by the way). Had to get a Px before a hospital procedure this month, the medication wasn't covered either, so my May Px bill was 120 euro.

Dempo1 · 27-05-2023 03:38PM

Just to be Clear, Nothing other than a GP Visit is Free on a GP visit Card, Blood Tests are not covered. Where a GP requests bloods for an initial diagnosis or investigation they generally don't charge but ongoing regular bloods would only be covered under a full medical card. (There is NO limit attached to a Medical Card patient requiring blood tests)

Re a Diagnosis for a, Long Term illness, certain Medications are free but only if the patient has a long term illness card, Diabetes requiring medication is covered. Patients have to apply for the LTI card which their GP signs off on. Only certain illnesses covered under this scheme.

There is no dispute between GP'S & the HSE regarding blood test charges that I'm aware of.

gipi · 27-05-2023 05:26PM

Medical Card holders can be asked to pay for blood tests, if the test is requested by someone other than the GP.

My mother is under the care of a hospital consultant (public patient), can't travel to the hospital, so gets regular blood tests for the consultant at her GP clinic. She has to pay for them.

Dempo1 · 27-05-2023 05:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647480#Comment_120647480

Well I'd be raising this with her GP. I'm under the care of 3 seperate consultants, Two near me, one in Dublin, all require bloods prior to an appointment. I've a full medical card and have not once been asked or expected to pay for Bloods.

I'm a public patient also.

SCOOP 64 · 27-05-2023 06:38PM

I always have to pay for blood test with full medical card.

27-05-2023 07:32PM

I too have a full medical card and have to pay for blood tests at my GP. I believe it's a transport cost. (I also have T2 diabetes).

I pay the fee, because if you try to book an appt for GP bloods at Tallaght Hospital (where its free), you'll be waiting 3-4 weeks for a 5 minute slot.

I also had to pay for my driving licence renewal form, the fee for that was €60.

Dempo1 · 28-05-2023 09:38AM

Again, people appear to be getting confused about what is and is not covered by a Full medical card.

A driving licence renewal form is absolutely not. If a person is not prepared to wait for a hospital to do screening for a Diagnosed illness as part of their out patient clinical appointments they'll pay for blood tests. Some GP surgeries actual manage a Diabetes Diagnosis & ongoing treatment to include blood tests and all covered under the Medical Card scheme free. Others don't and it's the hospital that manages blood tests, screening for free. Retina screening also free if you've a full medical card.

The long term illness scheme seperately also allows those with some illnesses, including Diabetes 2 requiring Medication (Me) to get prescription, equipment, strips for testing free.

Routine Blood Tests are Not covered by the Medical Card, only those required for a diagnosed illness requiring regular blood tests & screening & if your GP manages these illnesses, more times than often it's a consultant out patients clinic in a public hospital that manages treatment & bloods free.

I can appreciate the confusion between Routine & Required Blood Tests, Form filling etc but it was never intended for a full Medical Card to cover every expense when visiting a GP surgery.

TooTired123 · 28-05-2023 11:26AM

I would again say that patients should have no problem asking their GP about which services are and aren’t covered under the medical card scheme. Same with drugs and medicines.

28-05-2023 11:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649275#Comment_120649275

Checked the website of the practice I attend and it states "please ask about fees" in relation to blood tests..

It also specifies it applies to both private and GMS patients.

Dempo1 · 28-05-2023 01:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649674#Comment_120649674

I'd expect nothing less , my own GP surgery has prices displayed & I think at this stage I've dealt with the difference between Routine Blood Tests & those required for assisting in a diagnosis or for a Diagnosed illness requiring regular blood tests.

I've not once asked for Blood Tests , all have either been requested by my GP or are done as part of ongoing assessment of a number of diagnosed conditions, all free as are those done when I visit my consultants in public hospitals. GP's are not in the habit of ordering blood tests unless required.

28-05-2023 01:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644392#Comment_120644392

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644395#Comment_120644395

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649923#Comment_120649923

The thing is, they can say the charge is for a "transport cost". Two examples of such given above.

I know my GP surgery do this as well. The option is get the blood drawn and bring it to the hospital yourself (PITA - you might as well just go to the hospital and get it drawn there) or pay €20 (it might be €30 now, can't recall) for them to courier it to the hospital.

If someone believes they have been incorrectly charged, they can contact the HSE who will refund.

Martina1991 · 28-05-2023 07:52PM

The HSE cover all costs for blood tests.

The tubes, the request forms, the transport, the laboratory materials and the labour of medical scientists.

GP practice fees for blood tests very widely, as is evident above. A GP can charge whatever they want, medical card or not. The charge is for their time to take the samples and interpret the results.

Saying the cost is for transport doesn't sound right. Taxis/couriers bring boxes from the hospital laboratories to the GP practices at set times Monday to Friday and collect them again regardless of how many samples they collect.

gipi · 28-05-2023 08:09PM

My GP and others in the area now use a private lab for blood tests, the samples don't go to the local hospital any more.

My GP also charges private patients more if their blood test was requested by a consultant rather than by a GP in the practice (50 euro Vs 30 euro).

Dempo1 · 30-05-2023 07:38PM

I've not once been charged let alone heard of transport costs for blood tests, all I've had to insure was an early appointment so as not to miss the courier that does the transport and the HSE cover this.

hawthorne · 31-05-2023 11:38AM

The charge for blood tests at our doctor's place is in force for more than 5 years. The reason given was always the occuring transport costs.

We would get the test for free at the hospital- but that would mean travelling costs- taxi and train- much more than the charge at the doctor.

Dempo1 · 02-06-2023 12:13PM

I can not understand why GP's are asking for MC patients to cover the cost of transporting bloods. This is Done by the HSE through a dedicated courier service and doesn't cost GP's anything . I can't imagine there's either the system or time to separate which bloods are from a private patient or a MC patient either. 🤔

hawthorne · 03-06-2023 06:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669802#Comment_120669802

There is no service here from the HSE to collect the samples from the doctors and bring them to a test lab. All done by a private courier here- and somebody has to pay for that! Why should the doctor fork out the money?

This is a very well known problem for many years now. The taking of the sample and its analysis is free for MC patients- but not the transport of the samples. Both HSE and the doctors know about the problem- but have not come to an agreement about it. So it is the patient who has to pay for this not sorted out problem.

Dempo1 · 04-06-2023 07:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674475#Comment_120674475

Incorrect. The service that collects bloods from GP surgeries is run by the HSE , this I've checked directly. Furthermore some Bloods have to go to specific centres for Analysis, in my case ,some go to Mullingar.

A well known problem I've never ,ever heard of and I've been getting regular bloods done for over 8 years.

Jellybaby_1 · 04-06-2023 08:01PM

We have the GP visit card. When I have to have a blood test the GP gives me the medical request form, I make the appointment with the hospital and get it done there, so no charge at all to me. Hubby had blood taken in the GP's surgery once, and he just left without going to reception as he believed the taking of blood was free, and nobody rang us looking for the payment, but I wonder if he would have been charged had he gone to the reception.

Before we had the GP visit card we went to the hospital for the blood test and we only had to pay the GP his fee. He told me to have it done in the surgery by the nurse, and I told the doctor I'd rather go to the hospital. He asked "why, it's quicker if you have it done here", and I said why should I pay €30 when I can get it done free. He was not at all happy! If several patients each paid €30 in a day to our GP to take blood, how much would they be pocketing to deliver it to the hospital? Does this information come under Freedom of Information?

Martina1991 · 04-06-2023 08:29PM

Paying €20 or €25 for transport per patient is nuts.

It's not just blood samples that need transport. It's urine, faeces, swabs etc.

Say 20 patients a day had samples taken. At 20 a pop, that's €400 the practice is charging for a taxi/courier.

Multiple GPs and nurses collecting samples in the same practice means a good of change charged just for transport.

hawthorne · 04-06-2023 11:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677435#Comment_120677435

It is indeed a well known problem for years. HSE and the GP organisations did not reach an agreement in the matter. The HSE is firm on its position- and so are the doctors. This will go on until the doctors organisations and the HSE have reached an agreement which is accepted by all sides.

Hospital Charges – Tuesday, 10 May 2022 – Parliamentary Questions (33rd Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas

GMS (Medical Card) Patient Price List | Dr. Bannon Mullingar (drbannonmullingar.ie)

HSE refunds €2,600 to medical card holders who paid GPs for blood tests | Independent.ie

Notice-about-Medical-Card-FINAL-new-(HR).pdf (imo.ie)

Department of Health explain why some medical card holders are being charged for blood tests - RSVP Live

Midwest Radio - Why GP’s are charging medical card holders for blood tests - The Tommy Marren Show

Doctor charges that make the blood boil – Connacht Tribune – Galway City Tribune:

L1011 · 05-06-2023 12:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677435#Comment_120677435

There is no nationwide courier system for bloods. Your local GP may have a HSE funded out of hours co-op that does this as a service but that is nowhere near nationwide.

Many GP surgeries pay a taxi driver to move them.

05-06-2023 01:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677435#Comment_120677435

Incorrect nothing!

ive met many a taxi driver who does blood runs for GP practices, hospitals also.

The ongoing dispute is the hse disagree with charging MC & DVC patients an extra €20 (or more) when they are already being paid €50-70 for the consult when generally speaking card holders are on lower incomes.

I’ve personally been in the position where I could not afford to pay my GP the fee in the past. It’s very embarrassing when you expect to have your visits and tests during covered to find out there’s a fee for bloods that you can’t spare.

I’m sure most doctors (my own included) would waive the fee for the genuine cases where it’s just not feasible to expect them to pay but I was to embarrassed to say.

hawthorne · 05-06-2023 04:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678288#Comment_120678288

Well...well...well.....that is a good bit over the top. "Thousands" are made on the fee for the blood. Sounds like they take gallons and gallons of blood samples every week in your practice. Do they do anything else?

I never met a doctor who is "scum". Dr Mengele or Papa Doc Francois Duvalier were truely scum- but not our local GPs. My GP is nearly always on duty- and works very hard for his money. No holidays, no nothing. He puts his marriage and family life at risk with such a lifestyle. He is not the only one in the country. Loads of doctors reach retiring age now- and the replacement of them is a big problem. Fair play to our GPs- they are worth every cent!

Over 70s GP visit card and charged for blood test

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