This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

Silent Running · 25-05-2023 05:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639929#Comment_120639929

It's hardly a fair comparison though. A base Model 3 to a top spec, long range ID.3?

I get that the Tesla price drop has dragged second hand EV prices down, it seems that I'll have to keep dropping until it sells.

...Ghost... · 25-05-2023 05:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640053#Comment_120640053

What does the top spec ID.3 have over the base M3?

unkel · 25-05-2023 05:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640147#Comment_120640147

I have no idea of the spec levels of the ID.3 but that's a good question and spec wouldn't be that important to me apart from a few basics like level 2 autonomous driving, but I'd genuinely like to know too. Also the battery in the ID.3 is bigger than in the Tesla, but the latter is more efficient and more aerodynamic and can charge faster and has the supercharger network. So in practice I don't think there'd be much in in either way in motorway range, but I know which I would want on a continental European holiday or even for a longer trip driving in the UK

...Ghost... · 25-05-2023 05:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640213#Comment_120640213

That's where i'm at too. Just wondering if the ID.3 has any stand out features the M3 doesn't. I think the comparison made was fair, with the M3 (IMO) being a little better, but I can't pin my hat on it, as I just don't know the ID.3 very well.

Silent Running · 25-05-2023 05:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640147#Comment_120640147

Better autopilot (Travel Assist) with capacitive steering wheel, IQ light on the dash putting useful info/warning in your vision, Upgraded Massage seats, Excellent matrix headlights, Augmented reality HUD, adaptive regen, Diamond cut 19" alloys, Wireless Android Auto/Carplay, Automatic speed adjustment from reading speed signs, a hatchback! (important for me), Ultrasonic sensors, Auto wipers that don't have a mind of their own. The ability to play your own MP4 videos on the infotainment screen. And not least 520kms of real world summer range.

There are things that a base Model 3 has that the ID.3 doesn't, like a glass roof, but the above list is the important extras for me.

unkel · 25-05-2023 06:16PM

Hatchback would be crucial for me for our family car alright 😂

The rest wouldn't interest me either way really but I'd like a HUD, does the ID.3 not have that in top spec? The Tesla most certainly doesn't. What's max charging speed?

TitianGerm · 25-05-2023 06:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640307#Comment_120640307

135kWh now after the latest update and also has plug and charge.

fafy · 25-05-2023 06:21PM

There is probably a few reasons that Tour is not selling.

Its within 5 k of a brand new M3 versus a 2 year old ID3 Tour. Tour has more range, but M3 has circa 490 km, so close’ish.

Buyers interested, may have a Trade in, to shift, and some do not want to go through the private sale route.

Warranty - a big one when youre spending That much cash, new vehicles have 3 years plus with them. kia have 7 years, and i’m not even talking anout battery warranty here.

The facelifted new ID3 is out in the coming months.

There is a Tour “5” on done deal, 22 reg, it has dropped by about 5 k, since being out up originally, for about 45k, an absolutely ridiculous price.

Finally, the market place decides the price, not the seller.

If you want to shift, you’l have to reduce more. Good thing is Tours are scarce, and the 4 seater is very well specced.

There are more than 200 ID3’s on done deal right now, it was half that in February, there will be hundreds on it by late autumn, as the initial batch of PCP deals finish their 3 year period, and people want to upgrade.

Silent Running · 25-05-2023 06:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640317#Comment_120640317

Is it not 135kW for the 58kWh battery and 170kW for the 77kWh version?

Silent Running · 25-05-2023 06:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640307#Comment_120640307

I'm not sure at what level the Augmented reality HUD comes in. The Matrix LED headlights are impressive though, I really miss that! The headlights swivel to shine around corners. It's spooky seeing the beams shift with even small steering input on a winding country road!

LasersGoPewPew · 25-05-2023 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640317#Comment_120640317

What's the drive motor/battery warranty on the ID3?

...Ghost... · 25-05-2023 07:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640249#Comment_120640249

Better autopilot - I don't know, as I haven't tried ID3.

IQ Light - I'm happy with warnings/info on the big screen.

Massage seats - yes please.

Matrix lights - these are on the base M3. Nice upgrade.

HUD - I would like this. Useful for Nav.

Adaptive regen - sounds like VW marketing speak.

Diamond 19s - not a fan. Look crap after 3 or 4 years. Prefer comfy 18s with a choice of wheel covers.

Carplay- I wouldn't use it, but I can see its an important extra for some.

Auto speed adjust - same as M3, but it is still getting updates.

Hatchback - my only genuine dislike about the M3 tbh.

USS - yes, M3 also. I expect Tesla will bring them back by end of year and only current year models won't have them.

Auto wipers - I haven't had any issues with mine. They work great

Play own MP4 - no interest. Are all these really stand out and important?

520 range. - I'm getting about 400 now. Mostly motorway. That's before hitting the buffer which has an extra 50+km. If I drove it like it wasn't stolen, I would be achieving near enough 500.

Yes, the M3 has plenty of other features. Just to mention one..... The infotainment is the best I have ever used.

It also has 5 seats. I didn't know the ID3 LR only has 4. That's mental.

Fair comparison though between the 2 so.

fafy · 25-05-2023 07:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640383#Comment_120640383

the battery warranty covers 70% energy capacity, for 8 years and 160,000 km, whichever sooner.

car warranty is 3 years

a few battery caveats though:

https://www.volkswagen.ie/en/owners-and-services/about-your-car/warranty.html/__layer/layers/vx/warranty-conditions/master.layer

listermint · 25-05-2023 07:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640324#Comment_120640324

The final bit is the real truth and the reality.

EVs are now starting to act like any vehicle. The market dictates the price. The days of retaining crazy money when buying one are over if not near over. They're a depreciating asset like any vehicle. Ioniqs for 12-14 is the price band. People holding out for 15-16 won't get it they'll be left with the car.

This is normal depreciating kicking in and was bound to happen when EVs became more available more main stream more common place.

fafy · 25-05-2023 07:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639896#Comment_120639896

New facelifted bog standard ID3 Tour 4 is currently €46,410 after grant. Fair enough, that excludes, a lot of extras on your tour. Exterior Pack with the essential LED Matrix lights, adds 3k.

TitianGerm · 25-05-2023 07:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640473#Comment_120640473

The Matrix headlights on the VW cars is brilliant. Far better than the Tesla ones.

unkel · 25-05-2023 07:37PM

@fafy - "car warranty is 3 years"

That's a problem on a 211 VW that will only be under warranty until the end of this year realistically. If you buy a new Tesla Model 3, you get 4 full years of warranty.

September1 · 25-05-2023 08:14PM

@...Ghost... I think Matrix lights are not being used to full potential in Tesla, last time I drove they did not even bend but perhaps there was some software update. Meanwhile they are incredibly good in VW. If you drive after dark on country roads it really makes a massive difference.

...Ghost... · 25-05-2023 09:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640817#Comment_120640817

What I like about Matrix lights, is just how sharp and clear they are. I am sure more updates will improve the Tesla ones if there are improvements to make. I honestly knew very little about the ID3, which is why I asked. A lot of the stuff listed as extras are things I wouldn't seek or miss, but some of the items are things I would like to have. Some I could add as after-market for a few hundred on the higher end. There are some excellent after market carplay/auto options which are plug and play and sit behind the steering wheel looking like they are stock. I decided against it, because I would only be buying what I was accustomed to; a display behind the steering wheel.

Another feature I love in Teslas that the ID3 misses is the Frunk. I couldn't do without one. Great for putting the bag of chips (loaded with salt & vinegar) into so the car doesn't stink for days after. If the M3 was a hatch and had a few more inches behind the front seats, I would declare it the best possible car for me.

Anyway, we should get back on topic. Sorry for further derailing the thread folks.

wotzgoingon · 25-05-2023 10:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641068#Comment_120641068

bag of chips (loaded with salt & vinegar)

That smell not a good thing to have in a car. 🤣

slave1 · 26-05-2023 07:51AM

Frunk is brilliant for take aways, thought I was the only one that would see that as a nice plus, M3 also has heat pump and lith 12v battery so should never fail for life of car, the remote app should not be discounted either plus the ability to remote drop the charge rate which is extremely handy in conjunction with solar PV

unkel · 26-05-2023 09:09AM

I used the frunk for a takeaway once. It fell over, spilling the contents onto the nice frunk carpet 😒 And vinegar on chips is disgusting, smells of dirty old sweaty men. I suppose whatever turns you on, but that's not for me 😁

To be honest, the frunk doesn't add an awful lot of benefits to me 99% of the time. That said the absolutely massive frunk in my previous Model S was handy when the 5 of us plus dog went on holidays in Ireland a few years ago. We could bring everything with us and the kitchen sink, no bother.

sk8board · 26-05-2023 12:17PM

For the majority of buyers, VW finance will trump Tesla software and superchargers all day long; and many id3 customers are trading out of VW PCPs.

This has been our experience for many years now - VW offered the best deal by absolutely miles, and work to protect the 2nd hand market, while Tesla do the opposite, for now anyway.

Re the Tour being a 4 seater - did I dream this, or is it something to do with weight restrictions - it was too heavy?

fafy · 26-05-2023 12:56PM

No, initially the tour was a 4 seater, then it became available in 5 seats, with a lower equipment level,

for the refreshed model out soon, its back to 4 seater again !

https://insideevs.com/news/492441/volkswagen-id3-tour-5-seats/

unkel · 26-05-2023 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642892#Comment_120642892

Yep I don't think anyone can argue with any of that. Same reason the that obsolete Leaf was still selling quite well until some time last year - it had zero percent finance.

And don't underestimate that humans are creatures of habit. Many people just keep buying the same make for life, they don't know or care about other makes or models that might be better or cheaper.

And yeah I think you remember right about the tour being too heavy already, it wouldn't be able to get a safety rating if it had to cater for another person in it (+75kg). Which is pretty insane in a small family hatch size car. I just checked and even the cheapest smallest lightest ID.3 weighs the same as my BMW 735i V8 petrol from the mid 90s weighed - a car 3 sizes bigger with a massive engine. Mad.

TitianGerm · 26-05-2023 01:05PM

I'd love to buy Silents Tour but at the moment we're looking to get work done on the house so I'll stick with the Ioniq 28 for another year or two at the least.

The 4 seats would make no difference to me at all as it's usually only myself in the car.

joe1303l · 26-05-2023 09:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643127#Comment_120643127

4 seats could definitely put off a % of buyers. In something like a Taycan it’s less relevant but it would impact a family hatch like an ID3. It was a really poor solution by VW if it was a weight restriction.

fits · 27-05-2023 07:05AM

I have a tour as well. It’s become the main family car for our family of four. The two lads are still in high back boosters so you couldn’t really fit another person easily in a five seater anyway.

when I bought it you could get a tour or tour five for slightly cheaper with lower spec. The tour 5 had five seats. I wanted the massage seats and lumbar support which is why we went for tour.

it’s a genuinely brilliant car. Not sure why they are so underrated. Similar spec ID.4 is 70 k. I paid 41.

vw probably messed up launching the Id.3 before it was fully ready and it’s reputation was forever tarnished then.

Silent Running · 27-05-2023 07:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646178#Comment_120646178

Agree with all of the above. The ID.3 was released (escaped) in 2020 with truly woeful software and hardware that didn't like to be updated. The two ICAS control modules have been quietly replaced with upgraded ones on most, if not all, 2020and 2021 cars at this stage. I know that mine were done in the first two weeks of the car's life. But the software was still poor.

The 2.4 software made a bit of a difference. My car took 3.0 over the air in September last year and it transformed the car. Everything just worked, the car felt complete. I believe the current campaign of workshop update to 3.2 improves a few more things. Reports seem to suggest that efficiency is better, but that could just be the Summer effect or the consumption now being shown on the dashboard screen.

I remember reading somewhere that VW saved six billion Euro in EU emissions fines by launching the ID range in 2020. That would explain the hasty launch.

From my experience, the ID.3 is now a brilliant car!

joe1303l · 27-05-2023 07:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646209#Comment_120646209

Apparently they were also losing money on every eGolf they built. When I first saw an ID.3 in a showroom, I thought the interior was cheap looking, I’m still not that convinced that it isn’t even on hi spec versions. A Cupra Born interior seems much better for similar money but I haven’t seen inside a facelift ID.3 yet.

This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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