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Irish Road Racing 2023

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    #272
    dahat
    Registered Users Posts: 16,653 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601087#Comment_120601087

    I could see that loophole closing fast with tje expansion of club leagues in Leinster.



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    #273
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 6,957 ✭✭✭G1032


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601175#Comment_120601175

    Impossible to argue with much, if any, of that. 😂. Well put.

    Ya, I gotta say I do miss it. Went out on first club spin in an age (possibly a year, but I haven't checked) yesterday and we started rolling through for the last 25 minutes. It was a great buzz and I was still there at end having not missed a turn. It wasn't full on 100% race pace but wasn't a million miles from it. I was pleasantly surprised I stayed the distance. Getting to October in good shape to start into what'll hopefully be a good winter is my aim at the minute. Fingers crossed.



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    #274
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    If you haven't done the work over the winter, racing is tough. At any level.

    Cycling is an expensive hobby. Simple as.



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    #275
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601185#Comment_120601185

    5-10 years ago you would be wondering what you get with a LC license.

    But in recent years the category has blossomed (in many locations) and has become a thing in itself. Wouldn't be surprised either if something changes.

    The Clare Cycle League was run under a TI training license for years which cost 20E (local triathlon club would have had big involvement originally). This year there were issues (insurance related i think) and they had to switch to CI local comp. Doesn't seem to have affected number in any way



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    #276
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,294 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Some of the inter club leagues are probably pushing it on the LC?

    Maybe it's coming from Triathlon originally, I still don't think €20 is too bad. You'd pay €10 to enter a 5k running race, which wouldn't have the support requirements of a cycling road race. The biggest blocker for me is the timing of races and fitting it them around family life (and why the vets works better for me).

    Edit - 5km race just circulated in work, €20 entry.

    Post edited by Macy0161 on


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    #277
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600627#Comment_120600627

    Affiliation fees, from members and clubs in 2021 were €1.8 million.

    Of that, nearly a third (€538,000) went on insurance. I suppose that's absolutely nothing?

    Another €435,000 went on membership administration. I suppose that's absolutely nothing?

    Another €284,000 went on event administration. You know, events, like the races you want ride? I suppose that's absolutely nothing?

    Need I go on?

    And yeah, legal and consultancy fees were high, but that's because of the shenanigans of a board that we, the members, elected. Is Cycling Ireland not meant to investigate if potential wrong doing is uncovered? Is it not meant to get legal advice and representation (and thus potentially further legally expose itself without it)?

    Maybe cycling isn't the sport for you chief.



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    #278
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602822#Comment_120602822

    It's just a discussion... not sure why you feel the need to take such a sharp tone with that poster?



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    #279
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    He's the chap who claimed he got "absolutely nothing" for his licence fee. That's pretty insulting to everyone involved in running the sport, don't you think? I'm sure a fella who isn't shy about dishing it out like that isn't going to get his feelings hurt by a mild rebuke.



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    #280
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 6,957 ✭✭✭G1032


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602822#Comment_120602822

    Admin and insurance is a million euro. Fair enough. As was pointed out to me earlier in the thread, insurance costs are very high.

    The €284,000 on event admin though? This is what I don't see as an ordinary A3. Who does this money go to? The only help or assistance I am aware of that my club gets from CI is insurance costs (covered already in the €538,000). There is no subsidy to help keep races afloat. My question is still valid.

    What does an ordinary A3 see from that €284,000? I just don't see it. All I see around me is races getting cancelled or just scraping enough numbers together to go ahead, maybe even going ahead at a loss. Maybe it goes on National Series. I don't know. But I don't see any of it helping local clubs keep races on the calendar. I think that's a fair enough observation. And as you can see from the thread there is also some puzzlement as to why LC license is cheaper than full, for what is essentially the same thing (except open racing usually (not always) on a Sat or Sun and local races midweek)



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    #281
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    "What does an ordinary A3 see from that €284,000?"

    Every time I run a race, I have to submit a not-inconsiderable amount of paperwork to Cycling Ireland in order to secure a permit and accept entries. Someone employed by Cycling Ireland needs to check and process that application. I'd like to think I'm reasonably diligent about this, but even still, I make the odd mistake and there's back and forth before it's ironed out. My club alone ran around 50 races last year, so can imagine the amount of admin involved in looking after racing as a whole. People always think of open races, but there's club leagues, youth races, women's leagues, cyclocross, you name it.

    Aside from staff costs, some of the above went to stage race grants, so if you're competing in stage races, you may have benefited.

    Some of the Events expenditure went on the Great Dublin Bike Ride but I'd imagine there was income from that to put against the expenditure.



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    #282
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 6,957 ✭✭✭G1032


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603438#Comment_120603438

    Fair enough. Thanks for that 😉



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    #283
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603438#Comment_120603438

    Just popping in to say, the fact that your club running around 50 races a year last year sounds incredible to me. Most of the clubs within 50km of me run at MOST one race a year. Many of them are now running a Strava time trial league together, in which A1's on TT bikes compete with A4's on cheap alu bikes.

    I know it's absolutely unfair of me here to stand at the edges and complain (I'm not joined a club and not licensed) but there appears to be no real value in a licence for me locally unfortunately. That's not to criticise CI or the local clubs, just that I think there's a real need for more league-type races (maybe like what's in Corkagh Park on Saturday mornings) around the country. The current formula, of driving for a few hours once a week, doesn't really "work" for me at all.



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    #284
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604713#Comment_120604713

    There are lots of local leagues around the country mid week.

    Do clubs do a good job of promoting these races/leagues to non members and those who might take up racing? Probably not



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    #285
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606035#Comment_120606035

    To be fair, if they were opened up to non members it would be a sh1t show. Racers have to do some marshalling, know the courses and so on. If they join a club it will be shown to them.



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    #286
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Exactly. I don't think clubs promote these things enough for prospective members



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    #287
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,294 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I know my own club do promote our club league, and in particular encourage the "leisure" members to race. Some of the Dublin clubs I'm aware of in inter club leagues are pretty heavily (over?) subscribed in fairness.

    There used to be a south east interclub league that was open to other club members (not necessarily the organising clubs) iirc with the usual must marshal x races. I know I looked at it a few years before covid anyway when midweeks would've worked for me.



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    #288
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    There does seem to be a bit of a gap between the racing scene and leisure scene in my club. You don't get a huge amount of interaction between the two groups - the racers seem to avoid the weekend club spins, and the leisure riders don't seem to express much interest in the racing scene. The inter club league does seem to do a good job of bridging the gap, and you'll find a lot of leisure riders popping up at mid week club league races and also weekend spins. I don't know if its a case of once you start enjoying the racing you prioritise a race-specific training schedule that doesn't align with weekend spins, leading to those riders also drifting away from the weekend spins. And it can be a funny one to negotiate the step into the racing scene if most of the interaction you have in the club is with leisure riders and non-race chat.

    It's definitely not a closed shop thing by any means - just a funny kind of evolution I guess. Not sure what the answer is. Some people will have zero interest in racing, others will have done their time racing and now content to just enjoy cycling for fitness and the social aspect. And I'm sure you have those who have little interest in spinning with a mixed group on the weekend, stopping for coffee etc, and are purely interested in the competitive side of the sport.

    'Pathway' is a buzzword these days - that might be something that could be looked at more, But then again, who does it? You'll still have a divergence in approach and effort between the different clubs and CI.

    Personally, I think the interclub league is a fantastic middle ground and if looked at properly by CI (in terms of encouraging, facilitating, guiding etc) could be a way of achieving a knock-on uptick in interest in the open racing scene.



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    #289
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606035#Comment_120606035

    Yep, I think leagues have big value (having seen those in Dublin).

    The nearest open league to me (which hasn't run in a few years) is 30km away. Another club ~20km away has an internal club league which is very well organised too. Fair play to both for doing something (anything!) but there's around 10 big clubs around doing basically nothing which is a shame. And the nearest league advertised on the CI calendar is at least 100km away.

    I'd definitely say there's low hanging fruit there, there's probably people like me who would get a licence. It's not the price but travel time that's the issue. If I have a realistic option of a race a week without a 4-hour round trip then the licence becomes desirable. I'd say there's thousands of club members within a 30k radius of me, but no races. It looks like a problem. I could be an anomaly, but I know of a few people in this situation, so I don't think so.



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    #290
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    As one of the co organisers of one of the biggest club leagues in Leinster, we get huge interest from outside members joining but it is strictly restricted to club members only. It would be a logistical nightmare to organise with people outside of the involved clubs. We have 6 clubs so it mimics open racing quite well and people are divvied up into 4 groups based on ability so it also works better than the cats with CI. At one stage we had to split the league as simply couldn't facilitate the number of sign ups. At the minute we run 18 (x4) races, typically 4 races every Thursday. 3 of the 18s are TTs, and then some of the more common circuits and a few novel ones that should be on the open racing circuit. We contact the Gardai, the local community groups (who are very nice once they get pre warning), provide medical cover. Typically between 20 and 40 riders per group with a lead car and marshal on every turn. This is all provided at cost, so entry is 45euro for 18 races, €2.50 per race if you do them all but without the support of the clubs, and lots of favours, it wouldn't happen. The idea of opening to outside racers who don't have the buy in of being shamed by their clubmates if they miss marshalling is not worth the risk.



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    #291
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    That sounds like a phenomenal setup in fairness.

    I'd settle for more local clubs doing their own members-only leagues as a starting point to be honest. As I say, one club reasonably local to me does a fantastic job of it and not-very-coincidentally presents a high number of entrants at most races in the province. It seems like a no-brainer to me, in terms of increasing racing numbers.


    Another thing that I thought was very good was the likes of the etape Rás Mumhan years ago: a "sportive" with two groups on the road, one with a kind of faster expected average speed, and one with a more moderate expected average speed. Seems a great way to win over leisure riders who don't feel confident enough to race. I know clubs locally doing this where their sportive is a race in all but name, but I won't mention them for obvious reasons. It seems like a good idea.



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    #292
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Probably stating the obvious here, but if there's no club league in your area and you think the demand is there, you should set one up yourself.



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    #293
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Go to club agm, explain why there is a need for one and the club should support it



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    #294
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608446#Comment_120608446

    Yes your logic is sound. Unfortunately given the circumstances, I suspect the more straightforward starting point would be to create a club and collect the various interested parties.



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    #295
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611387#Comment_120611387

    If there are clubs in the area then your best bet would be to join one and then start an ICL between local clubs. There are enough clubs! And a club is more than one league. Using existing clubs gives the opportunity to develop ties within clubs between leisure and comp riders as explained above.



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    #296
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611387#Comment_120611387

    I don't think this is a good idea, you have a club with registration with CI, the fees that entails and all the personnel that requires. Other clubs racers are unlikely to want to leave their own. Best bet is to reach out to the closest 5 clubs, if they have a racing secretary, email them and ask do they have any interest. It's already late in the year to pull this together but you could probably knock out a mini league with a race (or two) per club in short order. There may even be a league you don't know about (not all of them are on the CI site).

    Where are you based? People here could give you circuits to race as well as ideas on marshal requirements. Decide on things like do you need an ambulance for each race, do you know people on local community groups (giving them notice makes them feel included but also means that on race day, you don't have some local nut calling the gardai and asking for your road closure permit), will you ask the gardai, have you done up risk assessments (the CI template is sh1te but ticks a box, I do up my own separately which are actual risk assessments).

    Its relatively straight forward once you have the drive behind a few people and enough racers to make it worthwhile. Since you are starting off small, don't offer prize money, most riders don't care. Charge enough to cover the ambulance (if you need one), at the very least have a trained first aider in a follow car, and a trophy, maybe ask a local bike shop to sponsor top 3 for the league overall so ye can have pints or coffees after the last race.



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    #297
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I appreciate the helpful advice. I hadn't articulated well but I know people scattered across multiple local clubs who are failing to generate club interest, so I was suggesting to bring those people together into a new club which wouldn't have an issue trying to do races.

    As suggested here, it would actually make most sense to travel to the club which I already know is well organised, have their own league (and are just generally a good club) despite the distance. I may well do just that next season



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    #298
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,932 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615309#Comment_120615309

    They don't need a lot of people in one club to be interest, just enough scattered across the various clubs for them to work together for an interclub league without the headache of having to set up a new club.


    Build it and they will come etc



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    #299
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Exactly. But the club members in all the clubs should be giving a hand with marshalling. Start small. Pick two/3 circuits and have 4-6 races



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    #300
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    What part of the country are you in Hans?



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    #301
    dahat
    Registered Users Posts: 16,653 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617530#Comment_120617530

    You’d be surprised how hard it is to get 3/4 clubs to run a combined league. A Tipperary one looks dead in the water this year which is a real pity.



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