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Leinster v Munster URC Semi -Final match thread

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, its a valid criticism of the ref (one among many).

    However, there is a reason the ref isn't responsible for time keeping in general anymore. Its a bit much to expect him to know down to the second how long the kicker has left if someone else isn't tracking it. We're not talking a significant gap here - the problem is that the viewer had information that the ref did not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Yeah, for all of the justifiable ref talk, Leinster should have still gone out and won it - it was there for the taking, even with a weakened side. That's completely on them and I'm sure it is how they're reflecting on it internally.

    Ref having poor games happens, can hurts one week and favour the next. I won't be arguing one bit if some ref decisions help us on Saturday



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'm not blaming Murphy here at all. There is a match official whose job it is to keep time and who is supposed to remind the ref of when time is up, and to assist with the shot clock.

    The idea that the rule couldn't be enforced is a load of bollocks.

    Again - I don't care about the decision itself. It's the portrayal of the subsequent discussion that is my issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    It isn't tough to look at the clock when a try is scored and add 60 seconds to it - hardly rocket science.

    There is a clear mistake made by the ref and it is just as clear why certain people are tying themselves in knots to make excuses about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside



    It isn't, but it's 90 seconds for a conversion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,070 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If you're complaining about laws try and at least know the law you're complaining about.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ah lads this whole shot clock thing is bollox.

    the penalty was called, there was long stoppage for an injury, and from what i can make out healy kicked the pen (pretty much) on the stroke of 60 seconds. Theres no big egregious player / ref / tmo mistake or error here.

    The only "coaching point" going forward is that the ref should really be giving the kicker a 15 second warning as a matter of courtesy, but its Frank, so....



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Fair enough - don't think it is rocket science to add 90 seconds to a clock either



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, fair enough I get that.

    Its a fairly common mistake obviously, and hopefully one that disappears as we get more shot clocks in stadiums.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    There's also the fact that the TV clock doesn't always start at the correct point. The law states 60 from the indication that a kick at goal is being taken, but this isn't always possible. I think it was the Stormers v Munster game where the Munster 10 (Healy AFAIR) placed the ball down and the clock started ticking down, but then the ref then stepped in front of the kicker to deal with something else, meaning that according to the clock on the screen the 60 seconds were well over before the kick was taken, even though that wasn't the case. At the end of the day the ref is the arbitor of when the 60 seconds start, not the clock on the TV screen.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I really don't want to get in the whole debate around Frank Murphy, as while I feel he had a terrible game on Saturday (and shouldn't have been reffing it to begin with), I don't feel he was the decisive factor.

    This shot clock stuff is an utter nonsense.

    The points I had an issue with from his refereeing perspective was a general unwillingness to give Leinster the penalty when I clearly felt we were on the ball - there are at least 5 examples from the game I think, and an unwillingness to penalise the Munster scrum that was getting demolished near the endgame. I was very surprised Diarmuid Barron wasn't shown a yellow, and think it's unusual for that challenge not to be a yellow, but Luke McGrath should have had one too for the deliberate knock on (but 100% not for the tackle off the ground, that one was barely a penalty IMO and never a yellow).

    All that said, Leinster played poorly, the squad on the day wasn't good enough, and Munster deserved the win. But for some utterly superb defending, we likely would have lost by more IMO.

    I genuinely wish Leinster fans would leave it there now, stop pointlessly debating that match and turn our attentions to a significantly bigger match happening next Saturday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,971 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    When they were checking for McGrath's deliberate knock on - I am not sure the stopped the clock in the stadium screen anyway.

    You can nit pick until the cows get home. In general the game was exciting with several transitions and the ref let both teams play and winner was the team who were most skillful in the last 5 mins in a close game. That sounds reasonable.

    Munster deserved their win. Well done.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭mun1


    I’m still amazed that Leinster side didn’t manage to defeat a Munster team severely depleted and battered from the Glasgow match .

    ref made a few mistakes for both sides , the worst one being not carding McGrath for one of his 2 offences .

    but I get it , he was trying to let the game flow as he has been criticised in the past about being whistle happy .

    I really hope Leinster win on Saturday as the group therapy bill will be huge if they don’t . For both players and supporters



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’m still amazed that Leinster side didn’t manage to defeat a Munster team severely depleted and battered from the Glasgow match .

    On this point, I’m just glad we have a week off before the Final. Some well earned rest, given the games and schedule over the last while.

    I think Kleyn could be starting something like his 19th game in a row for us?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,691 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    The final is going to be monumental.

    Both sides have two weeks to prepare to throw everything they’ve got at each other.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Our best performances this season have pretty much all come away from home as well. Huge opportunity. You’d love it for the likes of POM, Earls, Murray.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    It would be massive for that generation of players to finally win something alright. be good for Irish rugby in general too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,054 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    Ah lads come on. Leinster didn't lose 15-16 to team that finished the league 24 points them in the regular league on Saturday because of the ref.

    They lost because

    a) they fielded a weak team for the semi final of their bread&butter tournament, with no break strength or contingency on their bench

    b) that team simply didn't perform and

    c) the players that Munster picked, fought hard and got a result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭mike_cork




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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Ribs1234


    Worst decision was not awarding Leinster the scrum penalty when they pushed Munster off their own ball with 10 minutes to go. It was in front of the posts and would have put the game to 5 points. That was the match turning decision. Instead it was reset.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭ingo1984


    As can be heard at the time, it was reset as Murphy explained that the scrum was not stable before the ball was put in. He then stated if they want a penalty they need to make sure the scrum is stable before the ball is put in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I have no idea what people are talking about. I’ve seen Leinster get away with absolute carnage at the offensive breakdown before. Sheer aggression even illegal aggression seems to get rewarded.,, and Munster were more aggressive.

    The only thing this game confirmed for me is that there are B team guys for Leinster who are good players but might not be getting invites to ireland squads in a different province.

    Milne isn’t coming up to hold tackle bags and wouldn’t have ireland hype if he played for connacht. Maybe in a couple of years but not now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Yes to this. Several posters have gone completely over the top on the ref after this game, it's unfortunately too common but embarrassing nevertheless. And Leinster's depth does come into question given yesterday. It's all good news for Ireland tough.

    Most of the incidents that people are criticising the ref for are either 50/50 or common offences that are sometimes penalised but often aren't, like flying into rucks off your feet. If there was one incident in the match that I thought the TMO got wrong it's the Connors tackle. It looks to me like he got smacked on the chin in the tackle. He was dipping but that arm is high and makes contact with the head. Some people arguing that he was out before he hit the ground. That's a yellow that could easily be a red. It's subtle and could easily be missed (and I might be seeing things) but there were several minutes between the tackle and Connors going off so plenty of time for close review.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CBEh7V5F6Y



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Shocking that wasn't a yellow at least. Clear and obvious that Connors catches an arm across the chin, that's a penalty all day.

    That's a bit of an indictment against Murphy tho, as he should have ensured it was stable before the ball went in, or given a free kick for an early shove.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,039 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    In this particularly case, the on-screen clock graphic did start right when Murphy said "shot called".

    My feed then went to some highlights, while something went on in the background; Murphy had a conversation with someone, possibly a physio, but all I could hear was Donal Linehan moaning about Healy leaving for Scotland. When the live feed returned, Healy was running back from the direction of Murphy. I don't think Healy was actually talking to Murphy, but I can't be 100% sure. In either event Murphy may have stopped the 60-second clock during that conversation, which URC rules allow. Healy starts his run-up approximately 3-4 seconds after the clock hits 0.

    Without knowing what the nature of the conversation was, or the parties involved, I can't say for sure if:

    (a) Murphy slipped up keeping track of the clock, and should have received a support prompt from his team.

    or

    (b) Murphy paused the clock (even implicitly) while he sorted something out either with Healy or the physio.

    In either case, can we please, please have a rule that if the referee speaks, all commentator and co-commentator mics get immediately muted?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,039 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,039 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Archer had an offload at one point (to Coombes, I think) that was right out of the BOD playbook. Seriously, it was, even up there with the likes of Mike Ross.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭tall chapy


    I agree with everything Mr Edge said

    Munster deservedly won.

    As for the ref....totally different story. All the penalties the ref gave were all penalties, the problem with the ref, is what he does not give or see. He seems to see what he just wants to see.

    There were tons of them. Probably should have given McGrath a yellow for the delibrate knock on. Chose not to ping Coombes for being off his feet at a crucial point of the game.

    As a Leinster fan, all I can say is 'come on Munster' don't 'mess' it up now. We are all behind you, just some may not admit it😉.

    If we can win the Heineken Cup, even more support will roll in behind ya....Irish teams winning both the URC and Heineken Cup.. roll on the world cup....so no pressure lads..😉



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