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Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 hill raider


    What will be interesting here is the response (if any) from farming organisations. Presumably it is the 'rural communities' who suffer the brunt of the consequences of this attitude towards safety in the agricultural industry. They may stay silent here in the knowledge that 'farm families' know well to hide in their bunkers while this activity is unleashed for a few days a year on their local roads. But the manufacturers, dealers and operators of this equipment should not be allowd to hide. If this equipment is not operated by someone who has been trained in all the potential dangers, then it should not be allowed anywhere near public roads. It may be the case that the HSA person knows better what the facts on the ground are and is simply stating the obvious. As somrone who cycles 100km/week on rural roads, I am as well to know this.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I've lost close family members to farm accidents. They're awful. Animals and falls are the number 1 causes of farm accidents. Bulls and freshly calved cows. Slurry tanks etc.

    What I am saying is the vast and overwhelming majority of tractor drivers are fine, same as in any form of transport. And though they might be young, my point about the Dexta story is they're actually quite experienced, you grow up at it and start at a very young age, so you have quite a bit of experience by the time you're a mid to late teen driving them. Do some young lads hoon about? Yes they do. Does this happen in all vehicles? Yes it does is my point. Tractors aren't an exceptional case. You have to be 16 to drive for a contractor, that's only 1 year before you're legally on the road. I had my car license at 17.

    Drivers in all vehicles are dangerous, I don't think the drivers of one vehicle are any more dangerous than others.

    ETA what may be different is that other road users aren't used to being around silage outfits on the road. That I can understand, I have seen some mental things people do around machinery. In the same way people are around lorries, they just don't understand where the blind spots are. My dad was a lorry driver so I grew up around them, have driven them. I think it would be very instructive for cyclists to get in the cab of a lorry or a tractor. See it from both sides.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,396 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's something to be said for drafting behind a tractor pulling a load of hay bales at 40km/h and barely breaking a sweat, tbf.

    only under adult supervision, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Tractors aren't an exceptional case. You have to be 16 to drive for a contractor, that's only 1 year before you're legally on the road. I had my car license at 17.

    Not a completely equivalent case. The majority of contractor tractors are over 3.5 tonnes (and a significant percentage of them are closer to twice that) and that's without any load. To get a C or C1 licence for a road vehicle of over 3.5 tonnes, you must be 18 and have a full B licence beforehand.

    I fully accept that drivers are drivers, and young lads do hoon about. However, the consequences of a young person in 7 tonnes of MF with another 10 -20 tonnes on the back getting it wrong are most likely to fall heaviest on the other party.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    ETA what may be different is that other road users aren't used to being around silage outfits on the road. That I can understand, I have seen some mental things people do around machinery. In the same way people are around lorries, they just don't understand where the blind spots are. My dad was a lorry driver so I grew up around them, have driven them. I think it would be very instructive for cyclists to get in the cab of a lorry or a tractor. See it from both sides.

    Any issues I've had with tractors on the bike has been them coming from behind/ overtaking. The only blindspot issue is the person who is driving and their lack of awareness/ due care and attention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/improvement-in-farm-accident-statistics-in-2020-633878#:~:text=Fatal%20farm%20accidents%20over%20the%20last%2010%20years,-The%20last%2010&text=cows%20and%20bulls.-,In%202020%2C%20there%20were%2020%20farming%20workplace%20related%20deaths%20recorded,over%2065%20years%20of%20age.


    Screenshot_2023-05-05-10-22-02-449_com.android.chrome.jpg

    I'm sorry to hear of your losses.

    There's a review of the stats from 3 years ago, you will see tractors are number 1 cause of deaths.

    Your opinion is at odds with the facts.

    To say there's tractors are the same as any other road vehicle is simply not true. The machine has altered beyond recognition and the regulation and training has stayed the same.

    16yr olds driving HGVs wouldn't happen but it's the norm with tractors.

    People adjust to silage crews by staying off the road and away from them.

    There was a time road deaths and construction deaths were multiples of current levels and we altered our behaviour, agricultural has never made that move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Was listening to Imogen Cotter on the Pat Kenny radio show this morning, launching a new safety campaign for vulnerable road users:


    https://twitter.com/CotterImogen/status/1654181446645415937?cxt=HHwWgoC8ld7Q6vQtAAAA



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    My bad on the stats, I read in a teagasc leaflet that animals were number 1, might have been a few years ago.

    I also wouldn't say that silage outfits are HGV's, having driven both I totally disagree with that. Maybe I've just been lucky not to have bad experiences with them as a cyclist, but they're just another road user. Drivers are experienced, a lot more than equivalent drivers of the same age (having grown up with it etc). I'm not saying some young ones (a minority) don't hoon around but it's not the majority and having cycled and raced extensively around both home (extremely rural area) and Dublin and its environs, tractors don't feature in my scariest vehicles on the road. They're the least in my experience, cars topping the poll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    My worst experiences with silage contractors have all been off the bike. On bike you can hear them coming and can usually get reasonably well out of the way, but in a bigger vehicle when they come at speed with full load around blind bends and slide towards you it's absolutely no fun.

    I have a memory of one lad coming within inches of T-boning a bus, right by where I had been sat on the bus: he was just tearing through every junction without slowing down because everything else was smaller than his tractor (I know this guy, he's in his 50's and this is explicitly his opinion, that "roads are for farmers"). He wasn't expecting the bus and only managed to brake at the last second.

    Those would be my "standard" type of experiences of contractor crews: no stopping at junctions, no stopping pulling out of gates onto the road, no braking for corners. Because roads are for farming and everyone will get out of their way and they feel safe on the machine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,444 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How long did it take Kenny to tell her about the cyclist he saw breaking the lights this morning?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Ok last post as its pretty off topic.

    I didn't say they were the same as HGV but there is similarities without the controls and regulations around HGVs like

    *licences

    *Training especially around vulnerable road users, blind spots, high risk locations

    *Use of tachographs and control of how long operators can drive without a break.

    When you add in that much of the silage crew are young and operate primarily on narrow roads where by nature of their width they will have to very frequently drive to some degree on the wrong side of the road; with the consequently risks to other road users arising from that.

    Even if silage contractors complied with the Organisation of Working Time Act it would be a start, but is there any good reason they shouldn't comply with

    "EU law regulates the driving time of professional drivers using goods vehicles over 3.5t (including trailers) and passenger vehicles with more than 8 passenger seats.  

    The key requirements are that you must not drive: 

    • Without a break for more than 4.5 hours. After driving for 4.5 hours, a break of at least 45 minutes is mandatory. You can distribute that break over the 4.5 hours by taking a 15 minute break followed by a 30 minute break. 
    • For more than nine hours per day or 56 hours per week. This may be extended to 10 hours no more than twice during a week 
    • More than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks"

    Silage season would still be ground to a halt if that was in force and hence its not



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭micar


    My biggest "oh ****" moment involved a car over taking another car coming up to a bend as I was cycling the opposite direction.

    I was inches away of being hit head on...the only time I thought I was a gonner.

    The person driving was in a left hand drive car and the bend was going to his left.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Farm safety has a way to go for sure.

    Silage season is the second most stressful thing in a cattle farmer's year. You've a tiny window weather and resources wise (contractors, other people to help you), and to enforce legal hours would people (and processors and more so supermarkets!) need to pay a lot more for food and products (baby food, protein etc).

    No harm in saying silage season is on, expect busier roads and therefore a bit more careful - everyone has to look out for each other - but telling vulnerable to stay away is bullshyte



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I'm just gonna say it, silage season last year was great for me. Tractors near me very respectful and if I timed it right I could draft some nearly the whole way home.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Crazy numbers coming from a single stretch of focused roads policing last weekend (Thursday to Tues morning)

    • 774 checkpoints with 3179 drink/drug tests conducted which resulted in 188 arrests
    • 900 caught speeding by Gardai plus another 2179 by GoSafe vans
    • 177 fined for using phones while driving
    • 103 for being unaccompanied learner drivers
    • 81 for not wearing their seatbelt
    • 354 vehicles were detained for offences such as Unaccompanied Learner Driver (75), no Insurance (131) and no Tax (148)

    On the drink/drug detections, thats a near 6% rate. Thats fking nuts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,280 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Columnist Siobhan O'Connor in today's Sunday Mirror says her locked bicycle was nicked near O'Connell Street Dublin

    image.png image.png




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,542 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Parents raise concerns over safety of cycle lanes...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭buffalo


    I caught the end of a piece on RTE Drivetime earlier, it was the Dublin CoCo Cycling and Walking Officer publicising Bike Week events I think. Anyway, the presenter read out a text which made me laugh out loud, so hopefully some here will appreciate it also.

    "If Dublin introduces a congestion charge for motorists, cyclists should have to pay it too!" 😆😆😆



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,778 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Disability group condemns ‘aggressive behaviour’ of cyclists during Clontarf incident

    The women, one of whom is visually impaired and the other in a wheelchair, were waiting on the tactile paving for the pedestrian light to turn green. Two cyclists began shouting at them to “get out of the way”.

    A passing garda stopped to calm the incident and confirmed to the cyclists that people with a disability have the right of way in a shared space.

    Bernard Mulvany, co-founder of Access For All, who intervened in the altercation said the two women were visibly “upset”.

    I've observed similar inconsiderate behaviour towards pedestrians walking or crossing area marked as cycling paths. Pedestrians do have priority.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,555 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I know you're only in the cycling forum because you hate cyclists and climate change and woke stuff, but I reckon that whole incident is made up bullsh*t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭DoraDelite


    To be honest I don't think the incident is made up. I've come across a couple of weirdly aggressive cyclists while cycling that route over the years (I cycle it for transport mostly and I'm very mindful of the shared spaces and broad range of abilities on the route) , a tiny minority but none the less they stick out in my mind. The issue is really that there are a number of complete arseholes in this world and some of them happen to pick up a bike every now and then.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,396 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    no reason it can't be real. cyclists can be assholes too.

    just odd that it's deemed worthy of inclusion in such an august outlet like the indo. 'cyclists were rude' is hardly headline grabbing news?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭DoraDelite


    I didn't realise it made the Indo, I agree it's not worthy of inclusion there and is certainly being used as a clickbait article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,555 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There was a woman in her 70s killed in a hit and run a few months ago in Galway I think and it didn't make as much news as this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Could well be true. I don't see why it's so shocking or newsworthy though. I doubt the woman who rolled through the blatantly red light at the Appian Way/ Leeson St junction yesterday morning rush hour while on reading/ texting on her phone had much concern for any of the pedestrians trying to cross. Or the aul wans on both sides of the road who took a look at me coming up O'Connell St yesterday in the bus/ cycle and decided that they'd just waddle out anyway nearly causing carnage.

    Idiots will be idiots. And asshats will be asshats. Crazy that there are 'journalists' in the Indo for whom these is revelatory news.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,542 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    A good bit of what the Indo have on their website is content found elsewhere on the web, presented purely for clicks/advertising



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,555 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    if a certain GK is involved with this organisation i'd say it's absolutely makebelieve or at least totally exaggerated



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,396 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob



    I can well believe it too. I've been roared at by some eejit as i approached the crossing of the bull island causeway road. He came around the little bend of the path on the Sutton side far too fast and was highly irritated that i was coming the other way and was not out in the pedestrian part to acccomodate his speed. He swerved out around me using the pedestrian part - luckily nobody was walking there at the time or it could have been an incident. Some people are just d**ks.



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