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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There was one interesting piece of information in that Review of the Security of Energy Supply.


    There have been a few here predicting hell and damnation being rained down on GB through trade wars and sanctions etc. if they even dreamt of interferring with the supply from Moffat for any reason.


    According to this review in the event of a natural gas supply emergency being declared in GB, the Moffat interconnector would be treated by National Grid in the same way as a distribution network in GB. The Moffat interconnector would be curtailed equally compared to a GB distribution network.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,333 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I love who Eamo keeps bringing up the Climate action bill. As if it’s sacrosanct and can never be challenged. I would say there’s a very high probability that the next government will come in and drastically amends or completely strict that crazy piece of legislation. People are already suffering massively from inflation and adding even more upwards pressure on the price of everything will only end one way.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Straight question requires a straight answer - otherwise, there's the door Eamon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,333 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Exactly and you said it better than I trying too. Sure, rail moves heavy goods longer distances more economically but that’s not what we need in Ireland as we are just too small of a country.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    policies thus far have caused a fair bit of the inflation we've endured.

    Nonsense, but by all means, show me the reports, data, studies etc that make your claim true

    wreck as much of the economy as they can before they get the boot.

    By which measure? Employment, at an all time high, same for GDP, GNI etc



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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would say there’s a very high probability that the next government will come in and drastically amends or completely strict that crazy piece of legislation.

    Nope, won't happen and any attempt to do so would be overturned by the courts.

    There is no turning back from current course of action, the only discussion is about how much faster we need to get it done. Some want to wait until 2085 which is just silly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,416 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Courts can't stop the government changing the laws, only uphold the laws that are there



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Indeed you are correct. Are you aware of the case the govt lost that led to the current climate action legislation?

    Friends of the Irish Environment v Government of Ireland (also known as Climate Case Ireland) was an important climate change case decided by the Irish Supreme Court in 2020. In the case, the Supreme Court quashed the Government of Ireland's 2017 National Mitigation Plan on the grounds that it lacked the specificity required by the Irish Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 (the 2015 Climate Act). The Supreme Court ordered the government to create a new plan which was compliant with the 2015 Climate Act.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,333 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    The government can bin the 2015 climate act with the stroke of a pen and there's nothing the supreme court can do, nor would they even try.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,416 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    So yer saying that the government of Ireland can't set laws in Ireland that would, for example, undo the 2015 Climate Act for fear of the courts saying they can't? Your understanding of this isn't painting you in a great light.

    The goernment could remove that act and replace it with something else, or not bother. The FoIE can do what they like then.

    Post edited by roosterman71 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭vickers209


    Mr ryan will be sleeping well tonight 😴

    2 of the major solid fuel companys confirmed this week they are closing there doors on 31st of may,

    Both bord na mona after over 80 years of producing briquettes and Stafford fuels with over 130 years importing and distributing coal have both confirmed they are leaving the market in a little over a month,

    It will leave a big void in the market no doubt northern ireland suppliers will fill



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Nonsense, but by all means, show me the reports, data, studies etc that make your claim true

    You already posted it - the fact that import tariffs have to be bolstered to maintain differential margin in the cost to to consumer of imported non-EU goods VS EU produced goods.

    By which measure? Employment, at an all time high, same for GDP, GNI etc

    Employment - much of which isn't providing enough wages anymore to allow workers have a reasonable standard of living. There's lots of dead-end jobs out there, knock yourself out working those to hand over ever increasing indirect taxes. But I suppose the ones championing this scenario are reaping their wages from NGOs who suckle on the teat of Government for their existence.

    GDP and GNI - measured in monetary terms no doubt and in an inflationary cycle will look decent owing to cashflow churn - more coming in, but importantly, more going out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Very sad news, lots of jobs gone and now local fuel yards who these companies, especially those who the latter supplied will be scrambling to find replacement produce. Any householder hearing this news at least will have the summer ahead to look for alternative solid fuel supplies for the winter ahead. A busy summer on the bogs beckons again. At least global warming should guarantee favourable conditions to foot and dry turf this summer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Fair play to Laois County Council who voted not to burden households with the €1m deficit caused by increased fuel costs. When official bodies are feeling the pinch of increased energy costs driven by excessive carbon taxes it shows how the system is beginning to crack. Laois as far as I remember were one of the forefront leaders in changing over to LED street lighting and sourcing renewable energy sources as much as they could. For all their efforts, a lovely €1m bill hangs over the council.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As I said, won't happen

    Your first issue is who is going to do it? Apart from a handful of Independent TD's, every other TD in the Dail has voted for the climate action legislation.

    If you are hoping SF will, you'll be waiting

    The goernment could remove that act and replace it woth something else, or not bother.

    Nope, they can't, again the courts would force a u-turn as only actions which will lead to an improvement will be accepted by the courts. Back-sliding is no longer possible.

    But hey, there'll be an election, and then we'll see. My guess is, regardless of who gets in, the Greens will be brought in to lead Transport & Environment dept again as it'll suit the major party to sit back and let them take the flak.

    Either way, you'll not have much luck if you are banking on a reversal of the legislation



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're cheering a council being forced to cut services? What a weird flex



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,132 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You're not taking into account the growing political pushback, both across the EU and further afield, against punitive and nebulous green legislation, as the real world impact of that legislation begins to crystallise. Like the stunning result of the Dutch agrarian movement, for example.

    Your statement above about Sinn Féin is more than a little naive. SF may well not to anything to reverse climate legislation, all other things being equal. But all other things aren't necessarily equal. If there is a gathering wind of change, you can be sure that SF, the most populist of them all, will be first to raise a sail to catch it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Who gives a fook about freight in a country our size. Have we got a Canadian land mass. How much would this delusion cost this time. Yad be better off extending the luas to the airport and ease congestion. Muppet.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nah, won't happen and any attempts will flounder in the courts.

    You and others may not like it but that's just the way it is.

    The direction is set now and there's no going back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,529 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    “Back sliding is no longer acceptable”

    says who?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,529 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,333 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    You'll have to help me out here. How can the supreme court stop legislation from being removed? The last I checked, the climate act wasn't put to a referendum and passed into the constitution so I'm struggling to see what action the supreme court could take.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not me, The Paris Agreement, EU policies and directives, national policies and legislation, the courts etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,416 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    All of which can be ignored. Just ask Donald J. Trump. It's a signature on paper and can easily be u-turned. The government have the power to do this. They are full time passing laws that people don't like and there's no reason they can't undo one that would upset the environmentalists a bit more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,737 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The government cannot leave the Paris agreement and cannot change EU regulations whilst Ireland remains a member of the European Union.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,416 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Have a read of article 28 of the Paris agreement.

    EU regulations are up to each country to create a national framework to adhere to the regulations in a way that best suits the member states. Derogations are available where a strong case is put forward. They are designed that way as circumstances in each country differ and what's applicable in country A may not be relevant in country B



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Won't happen but for the craic, let's play this out

    Who is going to do it? Which party and leadership do you think is going to say "more pollution, less buses, less cycling, dirtier water, less forests, less trains, more traffic, less biodiversity, more susceptibility to global fuel prices, these are all good things, vote for us".

    The manifesto would be Monty Python levels of ridiculous

    We will

    • remove safe infrastructure that allows your children to cycle to school without dying
    • remove all EV supports so we can get more polluting cars back on the road
    • stop all investment in walking, cycling and public transport so everyone will go back to driving
    • restart the destruction of our nations peatlands by reopening the peat power plants
    • stop all development of wind and solar power generation and increase our reliance on fossil fuels
    • go back to buying diesel fume emitting buses instead of zero emission ones
    • stop aiming to increase landcover of forests
    • speed up biodiversity loss by ceasing all prevention programs
    • bring back smoky fuels to all our towns and cities, even the ones where they've been banned for decades

    I'm sorry, but thats some funny shiz

    Based on the figures below, any party stating they will be going back to the old ways would be unelectable so......who exactly is supposed to be your knight in shining armour here? The lowest % below is 79% btw

    image.png

    In fact its always a consistently high level of support, across the board, for the climate action with a significant amount (30-40%) saying not enough is being done quick enough

    But don't take my word for it, here's a load more surveys and polls on the topic. Feel free to have a search yourself, but the results will always be the same with climate issues being at the top 1, 2 or 3 in terms of voter priorities.

    But hey, you think it will all be overturned, cool, but as I say, it won't happen. There isn't a party in the land that would get elected on such a platform.

    Thats before you even take into account that climate actions now permeate all levels of government operation in legislation, policies and procedures, from planning to procurement. It is at all levels from govt dept to local council to quangos and (I think) NGO's that receive govt funding. Undoing that would be a herculean task

    Lastly, Ireland would become a pariah and laughing stock on the international stage. Maybe we would get support from Russia...yay!

    So you have a platform that

    • won't get you elected and
    • leaves you with such a huge body of work to do that it will take you years and
    • leave you with no support or friends and
    • will eventually be overturned by the courts anyway.

    Again I ask you, who do you think is going to do this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,737 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Ireland can leave Paris Agreement anytime. It will have to leave the EU at the same time however.

    The European framework has been negotiated with everything you mention in mind. It is up to Ireland how it meets the targets. But it must meet them.

    Post edited by antoinolachtnai on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,121 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    What are you going on about. What 60k car only lasts 5 years. Do you people even read your own bullshit?

    Ban billionaires



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