Andrew Tate

I'm well aware if that - my point being that purchasing it doesn't mean you read it.

I never said you didn't read it - I merely pointed out that YOU never said you DID.

If I had to guess, based on the evidence you yourself provided, I'd say you didn't read it, on the basis that some of the basic stuff that Tate comes out with seems to be a revelation to you. I could, of course be wrong, and you'll probably say that I am.

Anyway, leaveing this here as it serves no purpose as it sheds no light on Tate.

They all put me in mind of Chris Eubank kinda. Completely fake, with a makey uppy pseudo intellect/personality that appeals to the extremely naive.

Eubank was playing a character though - he was more akin to a WWE heel.

Also gentuinely more intelligent than Tate.

Role models that push such kids towards other role models seem to be the best ones from my perspective. As someone who teaches Jujitsu and other martial arts (and that jedi school thing I do) to mostly boys in the 13-18 range - I seem to be that role for them. They come to me with life questions and other problems that have literally nothing to do with the martial art. If I see a lad rolling with extra frustration or even tears - and I ask him on the side if anything is going on with him - I often see a wall come down and all kinds of stuff comes out. And it's good for them.

What pushes those kids into coming to people like me to learn BJJ? Well like him or hate them people like Joe Rogan and Jokko Willink for sure. The vast majority of lads I see who want to learn BJJ want it because of how much Rogan talks about it and the light he shines on it. So the role model of Joe Rogan pushes them to do a real world thing like Martial Arts which leads them to role models like me.

Whereas I think people like Tate and the PUA community are offering cheap and hollow and backrupt "quick fix" things which as you point out above with you tube - is bypassing that kind of side benefit and progression. They are more promoting themselves by way of being a role model where others (like Rogan) have the effect of promoting paths in life external to their own brand that the young pursue. So when listening to these "influences" the first thing I always evaluate is whether they are saying "keep listening to me and be like me and you will do good" or more like "here are things you can do in your own life, nothing to do with me, that I want to tell you all about and maybe you will go try them and find benefit".

So not sure I have any constructive answers to your question now I read back what I just wrote - more just echoing what you just said - but there certainly seems to be some online role models worth promoting over others. Even Jordan Peterson who I have faulted in all kinds of ways in the past - and still do - would be much higher along that continuum than so many others. But I certainly can not find any even remotely close to "perfect" even in the ones I would - and do - happily promote.

I noticed another one recently only because I accidently discovered my daugther has subscribed to her. Some podcast called "Healthy But Human" which seems to be the girls version of the "Art of Manliness" podcast. A random cursory listen came accross as a decent enough role model - though maybe a little heavy on the fitting "god" into every podcast somewhere.

They say that the solution to bad data is better data, the solution to bad conversation is better conversation, so maybe the solution to bad role models is just to promote and support the better ones. What else can we do?

The hallmark of a real man is also sexually exploiting teenage girls for financial gain is it?

Tate is very much playing a character too.

Can you reply to me with the QUOTE button then, just to see if it also happens there? Then I will open a ticket in the helpdesk and report it. Thanks for testing it with/for me!

Yeah I think McGregor has negatively colored peoples impression of UFC fighters and MMA figthers - and it is perfectly understandable that you might jump to a generalisation from that. Because what else have you got to work with? If the only Taxi Drivers you see/notice act like dicks on the road you will of course think all Taxi drivers are dicks.

Just being involved in MMA at personal and competition level - and occasionally watching interviews with such people on many podcasts and so forth - I see a completely different side of many of them. And it makes sense because it is a sport that requires a lot of dedication, self discipline, overcoming personal limitations and boundries, humiliation, confronting your own ego and humility, and so it is going to select many (though clearly not all) of some pretty exceptional human beings.

I even feel it / see it in myself and those around me when I do BJJ. If I am training constantly and well then I can not be goaded into a fight on the street or to react angry to assholes in traffic or anything. I am entirely calm and zen. When I am not training for any reason (illness, lockdowns, whatever) I slowly over time feel that side of me returning. I have seen BJJ transform what appears to be irredemable scum bag teen boys in my area (the kind that would literally accost and abuse and terrify little old women struggling home with their shopping) into something absolutely unrecognisable and worthy of celebration and pride.

But even then the majority of the public are only going to see those human beings on Fight Day - and will not see any of that background context at all. Compunded by a media who generally will only report on when MMA individuals do something bad or awful or wrong because that is news. Whereas a guy going in daily and applying amazing self discpline and self improvement on a slow incremental and dedicated level - is not.

So the worst of the worst tend to come to represent a wider group of generally exceptional people. Which is a shame. Again like him or hate him - the platform Rogan gives MMA figthers to talk for 3 or 4 hours about their journey really lets you see another side.

The Francis interview is a wonderful one to start with if you are interested. How he escaped his country - and how he kept trying even after failed attempts where he was dumped in the middle of the desert to die but came out of it multiple times anyway - is about as much "role model" material as you would ever want in a human being. I still know next to nothing about Tate but looking at the picture of him posing in a cold sauna makes me imagine he would curl up and cry for his mammy to even go through 5% of what Francis did.

I think your problem is that you closed your previous account, had it anonymised and then opened another account with the same name.

Thanks muchly. I will go to the help desk. Sorry for thread derail!

Indeed. I remember the PE teachers in my own secondary school (jokingly called a "college" in its name in Raheny for some reason) growing up. They literally did nothing except the bare minimum of overseeing. They set us to playing football or rugby or whatever and that was it. Those of us who had never played it or did not know the rules or were just bad at it were not coached - guided - or informed. We were all just expected to either know what we were doing - learn it from the other kids - or stand in the corner looking and feeling sorry for yourself.

So I geneally ran away from the ball in school - especially in Rugby - because I genuinely had no idea what I was meant to do with it if and when I got it. Our "college" had it's own swimming pool too and I had not learned to swim and had a mild fear of the water - so I was basically left standing in the cold in my swimming gear because those same teachers had no interest in teaching me anything. They just sat in the corner with a vague eye on the pool to see if anyone was drowning and ignored me lest they might have to do something like - I dunno - teach.

So while no role model or coach is perfect some are horrifically worse than others for sure. And it's a shame given how much I have taken to sport, Martial arts, and personal fitness in the last 15 or so years. If I had had good guidance and coaching as a child who knows what I might have done with it or what my level might be today. I am 44 now and I sometimes I feel I missed out on much of 15-30 entirely and had no coaches or role models that I looked to.

But to take it back to role models specifically in the sport of UFC/MMA - as their legitimacy to be such was being discussed a bit - many of the people who reach the pinnacle of that sport do so through discipline - overcoming failure and doubt - hard work - and respect. So they are in a perfect position to be potentially very good role models and coaches if we let them. Though some of them defnitely do let the side down badly.