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Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,982 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The Government do not set the borrowing restrictions

    Return your posts to actual reality - not your reality - or stop posting on the thread. This is a mod instruction and is not to be replied to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Do banks have a minimum mortgage amount they would lend?

    E.g. House cost is 650,000....deposit of 550k.....would the bank give 100k mortgage??

    Thank you....

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    That's what I thought but I don't know anymore. 850k for a three bed bungalow with terrible ber, maybe that's normal now.....🥲



  • Administrators Posts: 55,107 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    They all have lower limits, it varies per bank. Underneath this limit they want you to take out a normal loan instead of a mortgage (and therefore pay much higher interest rates).

    I think AIB's limit is 25k. Not sure about other banks.

    100k would definitely be fine for all banks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭J_1980


    It’s the cbi.

    it’s irrelevant anyway. Cash buyer around everywhere. Some even cash buying their follow on purchase and the listing their old home.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭dontmindme


    Cost rental is just the higher priced social housing for the fleeced middle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,982 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The lower the rate / better the deal the higher the minimum usually - there was a mover deal for KBC mortgage holders being offered by... someone, I can't find the news article now, which I failed to qualify for as the minimum was 100k for that deal.

    PTSBs general minimum is 40k; the others aren't coming up easily on a search



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭dontmindme


    Yes, of course...why wouldn't they, any chance to make a profit is not to be sniffed at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭dontmindme




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭J_1980


    -Just go to viewings.

    -watch sale agreed’s and see how quickly they appear in Land registry.

    -barn elms & Hampton grace park new developments all selling out at 2022+x prices etc.

    -follow auctioneera, offr.io and sherryfitz bidding on log in



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Where is the cash sale indicated?


    Houses for sale in Ireland

    - 9577 Results

    14k is what's recommended?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,633 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    What is the actual rate for cost rental determined by?

    Cost of what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    The only way that could be possibly would be to have a Build State Agency which when first mooted the LDA was to be just that. It may yet become a reality. A State has enormous buying power of materials but this would require a monumental rethink of policy, and probably still mean sub contracting to existing building contractors. The middleman developer would be cut out of that.

    As various level of housing crises work there way through other jurisdictions, if they opt for such a scenario, except us to do so too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Perhaps it is irrelevant as you say, we will see if that is true as interest rates continue to increase. But will there be as many cash buyers as defaulters? Perhaps so, if Irish passports are advertized to Chinese millionaires. The Irish central bank like all central banks are supposed to be independent of governments yet they seem to be compliant. That said, if things get out of control due to rising interest rates and sticky inflation, the main central bankers like those in the ECB, and the politicians will start blaming each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Yes the banks may not want to lend that is something I agree with. But the government, I mean the central bank did losen borrowing requirements. Instead of needing a 20% deposit, you now only need 10%. So banks could lend more if they wanted to. Also, the bankers may take the view that even if they were to fail as institutions, the government would bail them out again. We don`t have a lot of mainstream banks left in this country, they could all take the view that they are systemically important. And, don`t forget the cap has been lifted on banker bonuses and how does a banker make a bonus? By making loans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭theboringfox


    The 20% deposit was only for second time buyers. It remains 90% for first time buyers. Mortgages are now way dearer than 6 months ago. Ppl will struggle to borrow 3.5x and meet stress test of +2%.

    The banks have just rebuilt their balance sheets and profitable. There is no incentive to take excess risk. In fact if the competition has reduced as you say it means they need to take less risk as there is enough business there.

    The cap on bonuses only lifted to allow max bonus of 20k. You think senior management in banks are going to take big risks for less than 10k after tax?

    The house price growth has not been credit fuelled like in last crash. You just had very cheap money due to low interest rates and strong economy. Economy remains strong but interest rates have risen and that seems in recent months based on cso data to drive a decline in house prices. That also relates to house prices agreed before rate rises so I suspect the full impact of rate rises is still to be felt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,982 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You don't learn. Do not post in this thread again.



  • Posts: 14,769 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Government no longer has a stake in BOI and is reducing its stake in/hold on the other two, AIB/PTSB, so it would be difficult to justify a salary/bonus cap on banks whilst still expecting them to compete with other employers for the skilled personal necessary. I don’t have a problem with our banks competing to hire the best people, I would have a problem with such large, important institutions being hamstrung by having to settle for lesser top people because they can’t offer a competitive remuneration package.

    A functioning banking system that lends prudently is always necessary and lending today is very different to the policies that existed during the Celtic tiger years. I’m not aware of any 100% mortgages being given, and the for those that only require 10% deposit, there is still a limit on what can be borrowed so the risks associated with lending today are not the same as they were pre-2007.

    The Government doesn’t need to advertise passports for there to be cash buyers, a lot are Irish people with cash on deposit, institutional investors and Local Authorities, will that group outnumber defaulter? Yes, I would think so, unless there is a dramatic increase in mortgage rates (unlikely) and/or a dramatic increase in job losses (equally unlikely). The fact that banks have been so prudent in lending over that last 10 years means that the majority of borrowers, though feeling the pinch, have fixed their rates at a manageable level. If they haven’t, they should have. It is also worth bearing in mind that interest rates today are probably what would be expected had the boom and bust not happened, we exited what was an extended period of exceptionally low interest rates which was never likely to continue indefinitely, it was a very welcome benefit to home buyers that the ECB rate remained so low for so long. So the rise in rates is an inevitable correction from an artificial low.

    The insatiable pursuit for higher wages to offset inflation just means inflation will continue for longer. People want lower prices, and higher wages, the two aren’t always compatible.

    Right now I don’t want the Government to waste billions on house building, the waste will be outrageous, they have no track record of being able to manage such a project. No doubt developers will lap up the money being offered and this being a small country with only a few players capable of building on that scale, they will carve up the takings. Instead they should drive efficiency and make it appealing for property owners to return derelict property to habitable condition. Vacant property tax, trying to use a stick rather than a carrot is no way to innovate. I saw a headline that said a property developer was able to dodge tax on vacant sites, instead of having to do that, make it more appealing financially to build rather than sit on the sites. That won’t play well with those that want to punish people for not building, but if the possible losses for building are less than the penalties, then there is no incentive for anyone to take the risk.

    Thats just my two cents worth, might not even be worth that. But as a sideline from my main business over the past 25 years I’ve bought and done up properties and had a number of rentals, I would neither build now, nor buy rentals as the risks/costs far outweigh the benefits.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    You’re talking rubbish again….European banks have had to issue convertible debt that would recapitalise the bank in the event of the bank going under. This was introduced so governments wouldn’t need to bail them out. Stick to facts and not your fairytale land.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Ballyman road Enniskerry. 2000 units being built around this site. Check out Fassaroe SHD.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Not really as I suspect Ireland will escape the worst of this one. This presents the opportunity of sourcing labour abroad if needed and provide employment for those that might be affected by a slowdown (commercial property etc).

    A worldwide recession would make other countries far more competitive in comparison to Ireland so using the time period to address our major imbalance would be a wise investment. Our quick recovery from the last recession had alot to do with reasnobly priced commercial and residential property.



  • Posts: 14,769 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, our quick recovery was due to low corporate tax which attracted large multinational corporations like google, pziser, Microsoft etc, who used Dublin as a base for their European activities. These companies transformed the Irish economy, not reasonably priced property, accounting for up to 90% of goods and services exports and bringing in foreign investment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Hopefully the person who had the house repossessed doesn’t act belligerently, I once bought an apartment through Bidx1, goons showed up at my house a week after the auction , I got my deposit back as the same thing happened when the receiver tried to sell it before, someone unwittingly ( or perhaps not ? ) disclosed my personal details so the receivers solicitor didn’t in anyway try and argue with my pulling out, I’d personally have chosen to close out the sale but my wife would have divorced me

    that was 2019 , I should add that I bought an apartment through their predecessor Allsops in 2015 and with no problems whatsoever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭Villa05


    I'm pretty sure they were here before the great financial crash and a big reason for them being here and expanding was availability of skilled labour from the Labour party policy of free/reduced cost third level education. This policy is under threat from property gouging students, in effect replacing fees

    Many of these companies are on record of expressing concern at the price and availability of property. The property industry should be working with these companies not trying to extract the maximum for short term gain over long term pain.

    Both should benefit each other rather than price gouging at every available opportunity.

    Limerick was decimated in the GFC, now it's well above the Celtic tiger peak with its biggest employer an investment bank that was convinced to come to Limerick from Dublin which it was leaving due to high costs. We are running out of Limericks and the next move will be abroad.

    Complacency is a very dangerous trat



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    I wouldnt touch a bidx1 property if it was given to me for free!

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭Villa05


    In summary

    I was a landlord, I don't want to be landlord anymore. I don't want the state to be a landlord because the developers will ride the taxpayer. I'll be a landlord again if I can ride the taxpayer



  • Posts: 14,769 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I wouldn’t put it as simply as that, the taxpayer will save by not having an inefficient State body trying to manage building projects costing billions, by incentivising rather than trying to punish owners of vacant properties the taxpayer gets increased housing stock, the trickledown effect of taxes paid on income by both workers and landlords, increased revenue from spend by people in shops close to those properties, improved towns/centres by sites being developed and derelict buildings returned to use, increased investment by small investors in the rental sector providing more accommodation etc. So yes, in a simplistic way, you are right, property owners won’t invest in development until the financial benefits are more appealing. I don’t want to ride the taxpayer, but I won’t put a saddle on my back either.

    Isnt that the way most investors view investments?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Bought a holiday home through a similar auction. Has doubled in vale in 4 years and there was other bought cheaper than me after that in same development.

    I was at a BidX auction in 2015. Saw a young lady ( mid 20's) buy a two bed apartment for 28k in Limerick it's worth 150k minimum today. She would be renting otherwise like many other and cribbing about the price of property.ot was the same price as a new mid sized car at the time

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    A lot are toxic but some are fine ( provided you are a cash buyer as the title won’t be pure vanilla)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Presume that was mount kennet apartment on the dock road ?, I was present that day ( Allsop auction, Bidx1 came about in 2017 ) , a few apartments were sold for 38k in Mount Kennet but not 28 k, they also wouldn’t be worth 150 k today but would fetch around 120 k



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