Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

pinksoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473148#Comment_120473148

They're cost rentals, so presumably whatever that means in this context (cost of financing for the council?). I don't know.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473082#Comment_120473082

The state is messing with the value of property coming on to the market. They are encouraging people to overhold so the state becomes the only buyer possible, driving the price down that they can buy it at.

They are also going to try and compel landlords to settle for an "independent" valuation on their property whether they want to sell to the council or not, who as I said, are the only buyer in town if you arent allowed to have vacant possession before putting it on the market.

So they will screw, buyers who cant get a look in versus the council, sellers, whose property is devalued because tenants are encouraged not to ever leave, renters, because supply of rentals will go down even more.

Pretty sure there must be some legal action to be taken against the state at some point for people whos property values are effected by their actions. But sure who knows, they seem to be able to do what they like to people.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473148#Comment_120473148

It's expensive vote buying at the expense of our youth

Keep people in secure accomodation = more likely to vote

Keep youth locked out (collateral damage) = less likely to be registered to vote plus less likely to vote, plus more likely to emigrate

Sinister but tried and tested

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473438#Comment_120473438

Paying for the present with the futures of people too young to have any say has been par for the course here for a while now. I know that the "boomer" meme is overly simplistic, but it exists for a reason.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473082#Comment_120473082

Well yes. First the state prevented the eviction mortgage defaulters some of whom are years behind in their payments because they want to keep properties off the market so house prices will stay high. Now they are doing the same for tenants in arrears.

Everything would have worked out fine years ago if the state had done nothing and let a free market sort everything out.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473638#Comment_120473638

You make suggestions of absolutely huge, invasive taxation changes (with obvious, direct negative side effects); and also make complaints about the market not being let run without intervention.

I don't think you have any consistent viewpoint on this, let alone sane ideas.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473438#Comment_120473438

Cost rental schemes are a plot to force young voters to emigrate?

Ive heard it all now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473638#Comment_120473638

I’m not sure that keeping house prices high was the priority when making it difficult for lenders to repossess houses. There would no doubt have been a much larger homeless crises if it was made easy to repossess homes and evict tenants. Like you, I also think that if a tenant stops paying rent, the owner should not be penalised, and should be entitled to recover use of their property. But make no mistake, making repossessions/evictions easier will not be popular policies with the electorate, and will lead to more confrontations. These play more on the minds of politicians than keeping property prices high, which by the way I don’t think either does to any significant degree.

herbalplants

Not familiar with that part of Wicklow but this seems priced on the cheap side....

https://bidx1.com/en/en-ie/auction/property/88146

sideswipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474823#Comment_120474823

I'm from that area. That property has real issues in terms of being a bank repossession that the owners are trying to stop the sale of. The folio has been carved up in such a way so the boundary line goes through part of the property and there is no way to access the property from the main road so you'd need a helicopter to get in and out.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474823#Comment_120474823

Photo 3 explains why!

Boundary issue - hence Bidx1.

Zenify

Houses requiring work south of Asford have come down a good bit since the start of the year. I'm following that market very closely. There's a cottage called castle view 345k on the market for a good while and another recently got marked down to 300k, both in the Brittas Bay area. Haven't gone to view them but would love if anyone would like to share their observations on that market? I'm assuming it's because wfh is fizzing out a bit. Or maybe it's rising interest rates preventing NPPR house purchases?

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474855#Comment_120474855

Gotcha!

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474823#Comment_120474823

Bit of a Stephen King vibe to that place, right beside the old Indian burial ground, previous owners eaten by their re-animated pets.

Zenify

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474859#Comment_120474859

What are the chances of fixing an issue like that? Is it just because a bank won't lend or is it honestly not worth the hassle and risk?

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474892#Comment_120474892

I thought the house was haunted

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474900#Comment_120474900

It could be an absolute steal for someone but it would need to be cash purchase and you’d need a chunk of patience/time.

If you knew your way around the system too that would be a massive plus. But it rules out 95%+ of potential buyers.

Whatever about the sorting the legalities. I’d always be wary in these rural areas of hostile former owners/neighbours/family.

Zenify

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474921#Comment_120474921

As a cash buyer looking to buy in that area I'm trying to figure out what's worth the hassle. I ruled out that house due to the cost to rennovate due to its size. Didn't pick up on the boundary issue. I'll have to keep a close eye on the little red lines in future.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474921#Comment_120474921

100% you wouldn't be safe in that house... Most likely the people who built it live next door and own the farm down below.

I suppose there may be a way getting around the access to the road by getting planning permission to have access through one side of the land.

It looks like part of the house sits on someone else land... The far side, probably you would need to demolish that part.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474823#Comment_120474823

We're looking a bit further north. Finding it a bit confusing to understand the pricing.

e.g.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/southfield-ballyman-road-enniskerry-wicklow/4691807

850k seems a lot for a three bed then in the same area.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/primrose-cottage-scalp-road-enniskerry-wicklow/4695768

hard to see much in the difference. Just the second one a bit far out. With mortgage rates and time going by we've reviewed our potential outlay as being around a million max. You don't get much for that. Not seeing prices come down significantly at all

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474227#Comment_120474227

Sinse 2008, FF/FG have done everything in their power to inflate property prices. It started in 2009 when property prices were still in correction mode, having fallen 60%. Then, out of pure desperation the government stepped in an put a false floor under property prices in order to stop the correction from continuing. They did this by taking a large tranche of houses from the banks they had bailed out, and insured them against negative equity of up to 20%. And, because it was unlikely that house prices would fall another 20% (i.e. 80% in total) people began to buy these insured houses.

As a result, that month showed more properties had been bought than sold. So from this falsely inserted bottom in house prices, the government went berserk, throwing inflationary fuel at the property market. Apart from bailing out the banks which in itself was inflationary, FF/FG increased our national debt by 200 billion euro since 2008. All of that was used one way or another to inflate property prices. If Ireland had borrowed nothing but lived within it`s means, taxes, emigration and unemployment would by necessity have been higher and public sector pay would have been lower. Had that happened, house prices would be a fraction of what they are today.

FF/FG chose to socialise the bad investments which belonged to the banks they bailed out. They passed laws to curtail properties in default from going on the market which would have put downward pressure on prices. Also, because people tend to default on their mortgages when properties fall into negative equity, FF/FG decided to use the 200 billion to inflate property prices out of negative equity and into new highs. Besides, the illusion of wealth that comes from high priced property pleases politicians and other property owners alike. Remember the cement levy? That will make new houses more expensive because the cost of the levy will have to be added to the price of new houses. That is not an unintended consequence, it is by design.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475211#Comment_120475211

Not a bit of this alternate reality you've made up actually ties in with, well, the reality everyone else is in.

We can just start at the start of the fantasy - property prices had nowhere near reached their floor in 2009 (and had not fallen 60% yet, either) and fell significantly more than 20% afterwards.

Prices did not bottom out until late 2012, and an element of that was due to the removal of a Government scheme, namely TRS, which encouraged people to accelerate purchases.

If you can't at least try to make sense, please find somewhere else to write out your dreamworld. This thread, and forum, are not for you.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475280#Comment_120475280

I did not say property prices had fallen 20%, I said they had fallen 60%. Evidently, this alternate reality you refer to pertains to things I didn`t say and not to things I said?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475312#Comment_120475312

You didn't even read my reply, I see.

I said that you had said property prices had fallen 60% by 2009, which you absolutely did say - and by then they had not fallen that.

You also said that they weren't going to fallen 20% further after 2009; when they very much did

Not one thing you wrote actually ties in with reality. It is a fantasy inside your mind, just like your bonkers tax suggestions that you somehow think wouldn't be Government interference in the market.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473653#Comment_120473653

The insanity began in the years preceeding 2008 and continued afterwards, all facilitated by accomodative monetary policy and fiscal irresponsibility.

The consequences, are just beginning: A housing crisis. An cost of living crisis. And despite the rosy forecasts, this is as good as it gets.

All downhill from here.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475211#Comment_120475211

Whatever about the general sentiment being true or otherwise, all those figures you’ve quoted are so wrong it’s hard to know where to start. Jump on the CSO and look at the property price index from 2007 to 2012.

ingo1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475320#Comment_120475320

To be fair, he is right on sentiment. The government has done nothing to make houses affordable, but policy has been aimed at enabling people to purchase unaffordable houses and therefore inflating prices. Look at all the policies, first time buyer relief, LA loan, rebuilding Ireland home loan, shared equity scheme, put pressure on central bank to increase loan limit to 4 times salary.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473177#Comment_120473177

I'd say a similar level, at a percentage to market rent, that the existing AHB and now LDA schemes are. A continuation of supporting a new tenure for the squeezed middle who may want to aspire to home ownership, but in the absence of government being able, or unwilling, to build to a much greater scale, this is what they get.

For some, assuming they earn enough, they will still be able to save for that deposit but for others, the cost rental option will become their permanent housing 'solution'.

Government are trying to promote this tenure as a long term option, but it ain't cheap. Social housing and its differential rent levels are looking very attractive these days.

Not sure if the wider population comprehend yet what the government are doing re cost rental.

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475903#Comment_120475903

The government has done nothing to make houses affordable, but policy has been aimed at enabling people to purchase unaffordable houses and therefore inflating prices.

The whole issue increasing affordability means that current property owners need to take a serious haircut. Politically unpalatable and something the banks have no interest in supporting.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476279#Comment_120476279

The other side to this is that house building in large parts of the country is barely viable at current prices so the government need to push up prices to ensure building continues

Granted the incentives just push up land values in Dublin which is a waste of taxpayer money.

If the government somehow could crash house prices by 25% and then 5,000 units got built next year they’d be destroyed for that too. There’s no easy way out of this for them.

In my opinion the government absolutely wants to push up prices at the minute (but offset that increase through subsidy to try maintain affordability). But it’s for the ‘right’ reasons (I.E. we don’t have enough houses and the best way to get more supply of something is to increase demand), it’s not some conspiracy theory to enhance wealth of property owners at detriment of young people.

Rock, hard place.