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Royal Canal Greenway

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The conversation was dirt/gravel path vs the hard surface, its the same issue. Its all maintained.

    If you're referring to the deep sinking its not viable for the majority of people. The North side isn't passable at all.

    It makes no sense to block an entire amenity over a small stretch. Lobby to create a nature reserve in Kellystown. A load of space there, soon to be high rise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I’m not sure if you are referring to the whole route, a particular section? Or the other side of the canal (the north bit in Roselawn is not in use currently and is overgrown but the trail switches sides from porterstown bridge to maynooth).

    There is a trail which is very popular with walkers from Castleknock station heading west.

    it’s definitely worth going down to take a look at it. Rather than speculating on what it is and isn’t.

    I don’t consider the tow path trail to be a “transport link”. It definitely not the most efficient way of getting into town for most people, unless you happen to work near its route. The Phoenix park would get much more d15 cyclist commuter traffic .

    There are plenty of roads already, some have cycle lanes, and some can be retrofitted with them. Greenways are usually designed for pleasure not business.

    but as I’ve said already, while I think we are losing more than we are gaining - I’m sure I’ll be cycling out to maynooth and beyond when the greenway is completed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've been using that canal for decades.

    It's an amenity AND it's a transport link. It's a canal after all. Many people use it to cycle into town. Because it's a nice alternative route. Or just for a cycle to nowhere, and just be away from traffic. If you're cycling you don't have to take the most efficient route if the purpose is to enjoy the journey.

    They want to open it to more people.

    There's far more pavements beside roads than cycle lanes. So the same argument applies to walkers as it does to cyclists. Lol.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    I have often gone the canal from Blanch (did via deep sinking once and once only) from portersgate school entrance

    I prefer the gravel there and just after the cottage into maynooth.

    I can't enjoy the natural surface as find it hard to get my MTB 29 tyre into some of the grooves in the muck/gravel and then the random rocks that kick the wheels up (handy if you're a thrill seeker and want too fly over it all)

    So personally I'll be happy to see more of a path, but not at the cost of nature, always said something that blends in with the surrounding area, not just slap concrete etc in and stands out like a soar thumb



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I see the canal towpath is closing from Brinn Bridge (Drumcondra Road) to Newcomen Bridge (Amiens Street) from the 17th of April to facilitate sheet piling and ducting work. Good to see a bit of work starting on this stretch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭donaghs


    That stretch is already paved with concrete and tarmac from the last time i was there. are they just getting it up to "greenway" standards?

    There's a new bit from Ossory Road at north strand/east wall to connect it to the final stretch leading to the liffey.

    Post edited by donaghs on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I believe so. I found a typical cross-section below, but I'm not sure if it's the most up to date. I also believe they'll be constructing a new large ramp at Croke Park, but I'm not really sure what the purpose is.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    The new ramp probably reduces the slope to make it more accessible to wheelchair users. I would expect that the ramp to Drumcondra Road (currently very steep) would also be redone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I wonder if it's only for match days? The image they've shown is a gated section that I've never seen open.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    I never noticed that gate when passing it. I was thinking of the ramp from the other side of the bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/cyHjYnYew8eFJYAw7


    I found some different drawings at: https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/2023-03/D542-F39-F50-P02-combined_0.pdf (34MB file).

    From page 8 it make me think that the towpath under the bridge is being closed off and that a new ramp will be provided on the eastern (right) side of the bridge. The cross section in your image makes it look like the ramp could be a raise platform to the side of that Croke Park gate (as that gate bypasses the turnstiles I bet it was only used as a post-match exit).




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Nice to have another exit if that's the case.

    Currently feels a bit like a trench run....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I can never seem to find the latest information for any public infrastructure projects, so that link is appreciated!

    I hope they're not fully closing off access under the bridges as part of the scheme. At the moment you can avoid crossing trafficked roads in a number of locations by sticking to the canal level. I know it's a bit of a tight squeeze and not suitable for two bikes at the same time, but hopefully they retain that option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    skangers always use those choke points to hang out in and scope targets. I'm amazed at the number of tourists types I see wandering around there oblivious to the danger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭raheny red


    You've never noticed that gate because it's right in front of the most ridiculous part of the whole greenway. If you're not paying attention, you're going straight into the canal. :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Bit pointless as a post match exit though. Looks more like maintenance access. No idea though. Not a section I hang around in, any time I've been through it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Colour me shocked something isn't finishing on time in Ireland

    I went from st moctas old school and apart from some gravel at barberstown, it's as bad as ever with a few trees etc hacked down (and can see a stream now)

    Still wouldn't attempt it on anything but a MTB



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ^^^ is that photo from Confey's Cope Bridge?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Yeah just beside the train station

    Horrible looking path, wish they went with logs/wood as border then bark or that as the path surface



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Found this



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think the Confey to Louisa Bridge section of the project was to open this month but I've heard (but not read) that there has been a slight delay.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    A rough path would make the greenway unusable to some people e.g wheelchair users and those with other mobility limitations.

    Last summer I cycled from Mullingar to Coolmine. The smooth tarmac on the early parts was very nice and made for a quiet journey. The gravel surface (like on the right, just inside the fence) was noisy and tiring.

    The mess after Maynooth was bone shaking and quad burning. Even walkers would do well not to twist an ankle. I was on a hybrid with 28mm tyres.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,908 ✭✭✭Polar101


    It doesn't look very close to being finished at the moment, the path "base" and "edges" (whatever you call those) seem to be more or less done, but the actual path is still missing. Maybe they needed to wait for warmer/drier weather.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    I like A path, but I don't want a concrete path stuck in the middle of natural environment to stick out like a soar thumb.

    I know it's a sensitive subject, but you can't really think people in wheelchairs etc can be accommodated on a path like this, different in a park or that where you can park, do a loop and then get into a car and go.

    The general idea seems to be walk/run/cycle to it and do the reverse (sure Ive a 3km cycle before I even get onto the path) so how would people with mobility issues get too and then use it, there is little or no parking (most would be in small train stations with paid parking)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I assume those with a mobility pass aren't paying parking. There are also electric mobility devices these days.

    Maybe you'd prefer an obstacle course and fitness test to make access to amenities more "EX"clusive.

    : )



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I like A path, but I don't want a concrete path stuck in the middle of natural environment to stick out like a soar thumb.

    It's not a natural environment - it is completely man-made.

    I know it's a sensitive subject, but you can't really think people in wheelchairs etc can be accommodated on a path like this, different in a park or that where you can park, do a loop and then get into a car and go.

    Why can one not expect people in wheelchairs be accommodated?

    To be fair, that is a fairly daft statement to make and is a good example as to why facilities for people with disabilities are so crap in this country.

    The general idea seems to be walk/run/cycle to it and do the reverse (sure Ive a 3km cycle before I even get onto the path) so how would people with mobility issues get too and then use it, there is little or no parking (most would be in small train stations with paid parking)

    That is your perception but not everybodies. Plus most entrances onto the canal have somewhere to stick a car. However, the ections currently under discussion are all in urban areas and parallel to a train line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Knew this would be the response I'd get and why I was half tempted to not even bother replying

    Funny enough not long back from a trip too Waterford, visited the greenway which is the dream people on here have and guess what, I didn't see anyone on it (3 different parts)

    Went on the unpaved dangerous canal yesterday, seen runners, dog walkers etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I just looked out the window and there is no one driving on the road. Let’s dig it up and give it back to nature.

    Your stance makes no sense at all. We should remove all roads and footpaths everywhere as they are not natural.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    No I never said that

    There's better surfaces you can have then slapping a concrete path with thick concrete barriers at the side (as I've said doesn't seem to get the people out to use it in Waterford)

    Go up the Wicklow mountains and see the wooden decking walkway or would people rather than be changed into a concrete path as well?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Well you were on it so that's one person - or are you anal enough to go to the greenway and check it three times to see if it was being used?

    As for your "survey", it is obviously BS because the Waterford Greenway has been a massive tourism success as acknowledged by people living and working down there.

    I would also question your methodology for comparing the greenway against the Royal canal - one is in a tourist location during off-season and the other is in an urban area - chalk and cheese!



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Again, the Royal canal will be a tourism amenity west of Maynooth but closer to Dublin,m it will also be a trasport corridor for people commuting into the city.

    The Grand canal is highly succesful, has plenty of nature along it and yet has a concrete path. The "concrete barriers" are there to prevent subsidence of the pathway.

    Again comparing it to a tourist walkway in the Wicklow mountains is pretty stupid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Do you reckon people should also have to "...The general idea seems to be walk/run/cycle to it ...." the wicklow mountains? Indeed is that how you got there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Saying people use it for transport, completely scrambles some people brains.

    The idea being I might use it to go into town 8am on a monday. But also a walk in the evening or at the weekend seems to be incomprehensible to some.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,368 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    actually, the irony is that the controversial section, the deep sinking, is by far the most 'destructive' (certainly during construction) of the length of the canal, as it had to be dynamited out to a depth seen nowhere else on the canal (AFAIK)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭donaghs


    City parks are man made too, but that doesn't mean to can't have parts of them which resemble "wild" nature.

    I see a dichotomy here. There is an advantage to the paved surface for bikes, wheelchairs, and easier walking in winter etc. I will take advantage of this when it opens on my bike. Some people will commute on it, e.g. to Leixlip, Maynooth, Blanch, or the Dublin docklands.

    There's also something being lost. The "natural" surface on a long-distance trail. I recall there was sufficient public opposition to stop paving the Barrow towpath a few years ago.

    Grass or tarmac? The towpath debate – The Irish Times

    I think walkers are fine. There's loads of them using it as it is for years. If twisting an ankle on a rough surface was such a danger, no-one would go hill walking, or even stray off the paths in the Phoenix Park. You could put in a paved path up to the Sugarloaf, perhaps with a stairlift for the final ascent!

    From Ashtown to Phibsboro has a decent paved surface already, its fine for cycling. I guess the money has to be spent getting it up to the "standard". It could be better spent on new greenways elsewhere. e.g. the Dodder or the Tolka.

    --

    So no date for opening the Confey to Louisa bridge section? Its unfortunate for it to be closed off for so long. I'm not looking forward to sections from Confey to Castleknock station getting closed for that long.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If you have a " long-distance trail" with not a lot of footfall then a trail surface might suffice.

    But if this is opened up in a urban area. It will be very busy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,368 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    people are complaining about ruining the natural look of the canal with a greenway, and are suggesting a greenway on the tolka instead?

    i'm confused. a greenway should be able to take foot traffic, bikes, buggies. you don't see many people going offroad with buggies in the phoenix park.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    Jeez the whinging is off the charts. I just came back from a DCC public "consultation" about putting a few trees in the area. Hardly radical stuff yet the "shure its grand the way it is ...and it'll attract the wrong types...the dawgs are pissing ...and besides that whattabout X and Y..etc " was rampant. I'm beginning to see what DCC are up against on the Royal Canal upgrade. Must be exasperating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    How about one thing we could agree on?

    The toll collectors cottage should be turned into a coffee shop/vending machine and have a tool stand with a pump etc in it

    https://urbanculture.fotonique.com/the-toll-collectors-house-at-the-ryewater-aqueduct-on-the-royal-canal/



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ^^^ agreed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well what they will do is come up with as many dumb plans as possible until they wear people down. That how we got a 2 Billion + Hospital with no room to expand.

    What's caused all these issue is the authorities not retaining old train lines, canals, and land either side in case of possible future expansion. Not enough room for bridges. They build right up to the boundary of everything. Then to top it, its people who don't even live beside these developments and not effected by them, telling locals to suck it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    So do nothing? Some of the imagination deployed by objectors on the canal merit a Nobel prize. The imminent hogweed day of the triffid infestation is my favourite. On the proposed tree planting one clown came out with the great line: Shure if they like trees so much can't they go to the Phoenix Park?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not entirely sure what (or where) you're referring to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    Look I grew up beside the canal and still live nearby,,...hence my keen interest. What's happening is generally positive. When "I wer a lad" the canal was deserted apart from youngfellas looking for trouble and the occasional cider party. I was one of them. Besides, look on the bright side. I was recently over on the southside canal on the stretch from Inchicore (Richmond) to Bluebell and beyond. Its a kip in comparison. U could (God forbid) be a southsider 😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Would be nice, but I imagine it would need to be subsidised. Can't imagine it could sustain business from greenway users, could it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Maybe then best go for vending machine or even go coffee delivery with train stations/boats not million miles away



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Sounds like a nice idea. Unlike other parts of the canal, I've never met anyone out there anytime i've been on the Rye viaduct or Leixlip waterfall/spa baths. Worth a try anyway.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not sure what time of night you go there then! There are always people there from people walking, jogging, cycling and even some sitting on the furniture that had been provided a few years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,519 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I only 'discovered' the Royal Canal during the covid lockdown despite being in D15 since 2004. Great amenity and the thought of being able to do a Friday evening walk from Mulhuddart to Leixlip (and sometimes onward to Maynooth) kept me going through many of those bleak wfh weeks in the summer of 2020. Have continued using it since.

    I can see both sides of the rough track/proper surface debate. I'm really glad that I got to experience it when it was a wide variety of surfaces and the grass trails were probably my favourite part. However, it'll also be great if a better surface enables more people to be able to use it safely and confidently. And even from my point of view a better surface would enable it to be used in months like March/April/November whereas currently there can be really unpleasant muddy sections.

    So for me there's understandable nostalgia for what is being 'lost', but it really seems that what is coming is going to be an improvement for everyone.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,368 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's simple enough; if you live in clonsilla, say, and work in the IFSC - with the greenway complete/usable, you'd be able to cycle from home to work 95% of the way on the greenway.

    someone mentioned in the last few pages, something along the lines of 'having the phoenix park option', but that implies cycling along the quays; which is obvously improved from what it was a few years ago, but still a different scenario from cycling on a greenway.



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