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Heat 2



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭JoeA3

    I re-watched the original only last night on RTE2! Such a great movie.

    I can’t see how a “sequel” would work though, it’s not really a film that left itself open to a sequel, I’d be surprised if any of the original cast would appear and obviously many of the characters, including DeNiro’s, definitely cannot reappear.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭banie01

    He has made Heat twice already, it's a great movie in either L.A Takedown and it's straight to video guise or in its full on Hollywood glory remake as Heat.

    There's no real congruous route to a sequel IMO? It's original stars are far, far past being able for anything anywhere near "action". Even the younger ones in the original haven't fared well with age and illness. I mean he could go down the path of the City or the Dept being the "star"?

    I will still watch it, I mean the original(s) were very tight action movies and the shootout scene in Heat is visceral and as important to movies IMO as the bullet time in Matrix. I would certainly watch it just out of sheer curiosity to see how he manages it but? He could shoot just any Micheal Mann heist/cops and robbers flick and I'd have the same curiosity.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp

    Yeah, nobody's remotely young enough for it to be a sequel starring the original actors - unless it's a "legacy sequel" with a child of he cast all grown up, some cameos by Al Pacino and ... well who else? DeNiro's character is dead and poor Val Kilmer lacking a jaw thanks to cancer.

    Heat doesn't need a sequel anyway, it's a fantastic, iconic film of the modern era and being a once off just adds to the sense of it being something almost mythic, timeless in places. Yes a throaty and rollicking action film but all the other stuff had a melancholic, dreamlike state.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,749 ✭✭✭FortuneChip

    Yup, Heat is a perfect piece of cinema, no prequel or sequel would be able to add to it.

    If Mann was to try recreate a new movie inspired by the world of Heat, I'd say go for it, but any sort of direct sequel seems pointless some 25 years on.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Heat 2 is about the characters before Heat and after Heat. Listening to Mann on a podcast recently, he has been living with these characters in his mind and every detail of them for over 30 years.

    It will be interesting indeed how he handles the 'after Heat' period. McCauley is dead, Madsens character too, Kilmer is unable to speak anymore with his illness.

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Cool. Love Michael Mann. Manhunter is up there too.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    I read the other day he was looking for funding to make this if the book was hit. I'm sure one of the streaming services would be happy to throw a hundred million at it given how much the first one is loved and Mann is still working at a top level just one look at Tokyo Vice shows that.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp

    For those curious, here's the Goodreads summary of the Heat 2 novel;

    This new story leads up to the events of the film and then moves beyond it, featuring new characters on both sides of the law, new high-line heists, and breathtakingly cinematic action sequences. Ranging from the streets of L.A. to the inner sancta of rival Taiwanese crime syndicates in Paraguay to a massive drug cartel money-laundering operation just over the border in Mexico, Heat 2 illuminates the dangerous workings of international crime organizations and the agents who pursue them as it provides a full-blooded portrait of the men and women who inhabit both worlds. Operatic in scope, Heat 2 is engrossing, moving, and tragic—a masterpiece of crime fiction from one of the most innovative and influential filmmakers in American cinema

    The problem, if we can call it that, is Heat has become one of those films almost untouchable through its iconic, if not mythical existence. It defies a sequel because it has transcended its genre into something else; yeah you could make a sequel but the predecessor exists in a strata few movies ever achieve.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    I would agree with that. Mann is however is one of the few Directors out there I believe can pull off a Coppola and make something as good again.

    It’s no easy task since he might not be able to break ground as he did in the first one with the action sequences, he is also 79 years old. But I have hope. His only let down was Blackhat which he can get a pass on, and watching the first ep of Tokyo Vice vs the second with a different director was night and day. The second had to be switched off. He definitely still has the magic I think.

    The way he was talking, a deal on financing Heat 2 has already been done just can’t be announced yet.

  • Registered Users Posts: 60,494 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson

    Yeah that’s my take on it Mann seems to have it all sorted and is now just waiting for it to be officially announced.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp

  • Registered Users Posts: 60,494 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson

    I actually would not be surprised if it’s HBO Max and the merger over the last while was part of the reason for the delay in announcing it.

    Warners produced and were distributors the original Heat.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭Shred

    Cheers OP, I'd considered starting a thread for this!

    I’ve preordered the book and read the first 30/40 pages from a sample available on iBooks for anyone interested in doing the same. It starts right from where the first one left off with Hanna on the hunt for Shiherlis (Kilmer’s character) and the rest of McCauley’s crew; it’s got a really good pace to it so far and I’m looking forward to reading the rest of it when it arrives later this month.

    The first one is one of my favourite films, I’ve watched it countless times and all these years later it still remains one of the standout cinema experiences for me. Over the years I’ve bought it on video (I used to use it to demo my first Dolby Prologic system in the late 90s!), DVD, BluRay, 4k digital and have the 4k BluRay preordered (it’s out next Monday, disappointed it doesn’t seem to have an Atmos track). I absolutely love it!

    So. Am I anxious that Mann could get this one wrong after so all these years and so potentially tarnish the original (it wouldn’t for me but might for others)? You bet I am. However, I really do hope he gets to make it and in the way it deserves to be made - for big screen cinema, none of your steaming crap please (from a financing perspective it’ll probably be Netflix with a small cinema release I’d fear though)!

    He’s said he’ll be re-casting the roles rather than going the de-aging route (thank Christ!). For the pre-95 sections that’s fine by me but how can he do the 95-00 sections with all of the original actors (those who survived at least) so advanced in years without the audience being ‘taken out of it’? As I said above, it starts right from where the first one left off; it might require all of our ‘suspension of disbelief’ powers 😀 In this way the book works best as the characters look the same in your head.

    Looking forward to seeing how it develops anyway.

  • Registered Users Posts: 60,494 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson

    The Book is top of the best seller charts,

    Mann is now in Italy filming Ferrari.

    He then hopes to film Heat 2 once that is finished.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp

    Yikes. €15 quid just for the Kindle edition; was going to take a dive but that's more than a bit too pricey for a digital rental edition.

    Listened to the Blank Cheque podcast on Heat, and supposedly each take of the famous bank shootout took 1000 rounds of ammunition. Mad stuff.

    Hmmm, wonder who you'd cast for a sequel. Kinda has to be star power for it to work, and attempt to match the original casting - but who?

    And in case anyone thinks otherwise, here's what happens when the same scene was played by a couple of unknowns the first time Mann told this story...

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    I still think his Manhunter is the best Hannibal Lecter movie made and Brian Cox is ten times a better Lecter than Hopkins.

    I don't think Mann would have much of a problem finding star power of any age range to star in Heat 2.

  • Registered Users Posts: 60,494 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭Shred

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Just finished the book, really interesting experience reading about characters you have seen and understand from a film in their past and future lives. Both past and future tales in the book I have no doubt will transfer to the screen impressively

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,991 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly

    Ah here, this must be a windup. Manhunter is just about watchable.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate

    Also just finished the book a few weeks ago. It's a fun read and at its best definitely captures the propulsive energy of the film. Has its issues - not least the sheer amount of coincidences it uses to set up its explosive finale (which will be very expensive to film :P) - but it's definitely worth a look.

    My main question around an adaptation is how the story's structure will work on film. It jumps back and forth between different timelines a lot, but not sure that'd work on film. Maybe the best way to handle it would be the 1995 stuff as a prologue, the flashback story as its own section, and then finally wrap it all up with the 2000 storyline.

    Also very curious how they handle recasting Vincent Hanna - he's basically more Al Pacino on the page than the actual Al Pacino performance in the film!

    Post edited by johnny_ultimate on

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    I'd say Mann has been planning how to structure this on film for at least 10 years, the results I have full faith will be spectacular and hopefully he proves Tarrantino wrong about a directors last few films.

    Mind you the casting is critical as you say, McCauley as a character you would assume is a lot easier to play, Hannah however needs brilliance, flair and a bit of rage. No one comes to mind with all those particular skills!

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,749 ✭✭✭FortuneChip

    Yeah, I don't really have fears about the prologue aspect. I've not read the book, but assume we learn what drove Mccauley to become so disciplined. Maybe serving time beccause he didn't walk away, getting burned and decided to never let himself get in that situation again. DeNiro's performance might be the more understated of the two, but he really did tell you everything about who he is in that movie, a credit how it was filmed.

    The post-Heat stuff, I'm more skeptical of. Firstly, casting. It can't be Al, I don't know who it can be playing Hannah. Maybe just give it to Michaal Shannon. He's of a decent age, could definitely provide the menace and unpredictability, and is usually solid with the right material (which he'd have)

    Equally unsure of who replaces Val Kilmer. Guy Pearce if one that comes to mind, but dunno. I am interested in how the story develops, and why Chris remains on Hanna's radar etc.Assume it's done well in the book.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭Shred

    I really enjoyed the book and, barring some of the Paraguay stuff, found it a bit of a page turner. There's a great pace to it; Otis Wardell is a real piece of work! It's clear it was written with a film adaption in mind from the beginning (Mann has said as much) and it captures the atmosphere of the original film really well. If you're a fan of Heat I'd recommend you give it a go, it hooks you in pretty quickly in starting straight from where the film left off.

    I'm glad to see he is going with re-casting rather then de-aging and I just hope he'll do the same for the post '95 material too. As much as I would have loved to see Pacino and Kilmer back in their roles, it really would have to have been made 15-20 years ago for that to be realistic imho.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp

    Mann was never exactly what you'd call prolific and at 80 years old, I'd wonder how likely this might be to see the light of day.

    That Ferrari movie is stuck in Editing Limbo IIRC, which isn't uncommon for Mann - so god knows when that'll come out before Heat 2 becomes anything remotely likely.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭artvanderlay

    Didn't like the book. I thought it was bland, predictable and over-praised by critics. I think it would be a waste of time making it into a movie: it'll be no more than El Camino to Heat's Breaking Bad. Also no De Niro + no Pacino = no point.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭Shred

    Oh I hear you. While he made clear his intention to make this into a film part of the publicity for the book launch I did wonder if it really would happen. But, it's encouraging casting discussions appear underway at least. Folks were skeptical Gladiator 2 would happen too and for good reason, but (for better or worse!) that's also now going ahead.

    In both cases there's so much that could go wrong but I'll remain hopeful they can pull it off.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭Gamb!t

    Loved Heat just not sure Heat 2 needs to be made as it was perfect with a superb cast and script.

    Will be interesting to see who Mann will cast for the sequel,not gone on Driver as a young Neil McCauley.