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Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I understand perfectly well how EU contributions worked, especially for those who received EU money, like the owner of the new B+B McMansion in a touristy area during the tiger years. Great for them, not so great for those who gave the money....I remember the Englishman being astonished how the EU money about 19 or 20 years ago was being spent, and I remember well he was astonished despite our overheating tiger economy then that we got another annoucement of EU funds coming to Ireland then, it was all over the news.  'Twas a bit embarrassing, lets face it.

    I cannot understand the logic however of having a few hundred highly paid translators in Brussels whole sole job is to translate EU documentation in to Irish, which nobody will read. Lets face it, money could be better spent, even if it was only to promote the language.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭trashcan




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think we can consider that drum well and truly banged, while failing to even reach anything orbiting the actual, original point WRT the loss of important funds for NI institutions - dressed up as success by the DUP. But by all means keep shouting about Irish translators like it has anything to do with anything.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Regarding translating documentation into a language that nobody will read, well I've read some of them in Irish so that immediately disputes your claim. Just because you don't know anyone who uses Irish doesn't support your bias that there is nobody who uses the language.

    However, it is an official language and isn't it good that the EU treat all official languages with equality?

    As for your English friend, who cares what they thought? The UK did very well from being members of the EU and just because they contributed more in direct contributions than they took out does not mean anything if you are not going to look at the overall package of benefits gained. Ireland not contributes more than we get back but would it be fair to say that we don't benefit overall from our EU membership? It would be utterly stupid to think so!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That ‘stupidity’ is being repaid to those in the ESF sector who believed Tory lies about matching funding and the ‘benefits’ of Brexit. As mentioned they are not the only sector so conned.

    For those who didn’t believe and who warned this would happen, it is a sad sad day. I don’t think they will be pointing fingers at Irish translators either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭standardg60


    So firstly you had an issue with the sea border being called Irish, now you have an issue with EU legislation being translated into Irish, and just for good measure an 'Englishman' told you that Irish people get grants from the EU to build their mansions.

    Did you need this 'proof' to form this anti-Irish stance or have you had it all along and decided to make stuff up to justify it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Exactly, contributions to the single market were proportionate to the benefit gained from being in such. The idiots who thought that there was no correlation between the two and all this money was going to be 'saved' after Brexit are now seeing the cows coming home when they've no market to generate their economy.



  • Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They managed to destroy the language just the right amount for it to piss off their descendants centuries later. A bit more and the documents wouldn't have to be translated, or a bit less and it wouldn't be a waste of money.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    We have seen that the UK has been unable to police their borders with sufficient customs officers that they can take back control of those borders.

    The SM allowed them to dispense with most customs officers, and that saving was not factored into their benefits of being in the EU. There are many such benefits that were put to nought by the exit from the EU, and particularly the hard exit engineered by the swivel eyed loons in the ERG, and the ineffective leadership of the Tories by the last four PMs.

    Meanwhile, the savings of the 'massive' contributions are yet to manifest to the NHS, the regional fund recipients, or the CAP recipients - despite the declarations and promises of this corrupt Tory Gov. The billionaires and millionaires have seen huge benefits like tax reductions and chum contracts, but the Sunderland and Cornwall Brexit voters have yet to see even 10% of that bounty redistributed in their direction.

    Well, Starmer is hoping that revenge will be wrought by them and their fellow disappointed Brexiteers on the Tories at the upcoming elections - both local and GE.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Oh, God, not this shIte again. It's like somebody has been asleep since 2016.

    First point that even a four-year old could grasp but a Brexit supporter, apparently, can't. A net contribution of £12.6 billion to the EU costs the UK exchequer £12.6 billion. The cost to the UK exchequer doesn't depend at all on what the EU spends it on. If the contribution can be somehow shown to be illegitimate by pointing to the fact that an unspecified part of it has been spent in a way of which you disapprove, you'd have to accept that the exchequer retaining that money would also be rendered illegitimate by pointing to the fact that they spend an unspecified part of in in ways of which we might disapprove. God knows that wouldn't be difficult. So, stop pissing into the wind on this, Frankie.

    Second point: you can't raise the issue of the cost to the exchequer of EU membership and expect everyone to ignore the benefit to the exchequer of EU membership.

    The annual cost, let's say we've established, was £12.6 billion — that was 2020, but lets assume that in real terms it represents a typical annual cost. What was the benefit?

    This isn't difficult to work out. UK GDP in 2020 was £1.99 trillion. GPD, as we know, is made up of all the transactions in the economy — purchases, sales, employments, various things that create or add value. The government levies various taxes on these transactions — that's how they raise the revenue out of which they found £12.6 billion to pay to the EU. The UK collects about 33% of GDP in tax revenue which, for a European country, make them relative low-tax.

    Right. The UK government's own modelling says that, long term, Brexit will reduce UK GDP by about 4% compared to what it would have been, but for Brexit. That will have a corresponding hit on tax take. It's not difficult to calculate that hit, in 2020 terms; it's 33% of 4% of £1.99 trillion, which is £26.3 billion.

    So, far from Brexit making the UK exchequer better off by $12.6 billion a year, it actually makes it worse off by £13.7 billion. Frankie, when you woke up after your seven-year sleep, did it not occur to you to wonder why Brexiters were no longer banging on about all the extra money the UK would have to spend on the NHS, etc as a result of Brexit? While you were sleeping this discussion was had, and most Brexit supporters now understand that , the less they honk into the void about the cost of EU membership, the better for brexitry; this is not something they should want to draw attention to. Try to keep up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    An incredibly hypocritical attempt by Foster to shift the focus as the GFA anniversary comes into view.

    I suspect she is uncomfortable with the fact that while those who embraced the peace will be eulogised, those who strenuously objected and jumped political ships in opposition will also be remembered.

    Ireland and the UK were committed members of the EU when the agreement was reached between the two of them, and the rest of the nations of the EU supported it wholeheartedly.

    It is correct to say that the EU was pivotal in the GFA both before and after signing the agreement.

    Brexit changed that, and if anything endangered peace it was those who wholeheartedly went after the hardest of Brexit's and objected to any plan to mitigate it's effect here.

    We see you Arlene!.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You say the UK has not been able to police its borders? They are actually paying the French to try to police theirs. The EU is in such a sad state that even last year 45,000-plus people risked their lives trying to cross the English channel in little rubber dinghies and small boats to get away from the EU in to the UK. Last year after tighter security at the Channel tunnel and ports made it almost impossible to cross by train, truck or ferry.

    After the deaths of 31 people in the Channel when their inflatable boat sank in November 2021, Johnson said it was clear that French operations to stop the boats leaving “haven’t been enough”, despite £55m of British financial support. 5 days ago the UK has agreed to give France £500m over three years which will go towards more patrol officers and a new detention centre.

    I remember before Brexit cartoons showing an inflatable dinghy with refugees leaving the UK, which suggested that after Brexit the boatloads of refugees would be heading the other way after Brexit. That has not happened. Reminds me a bit of during the troubles far more people from Ireland went to live and work in N.Ireland and the UK than came the other way.....dunno how that happened if the UK was that bad towards Irish people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Any response to Perigrinus' post at all or is it too infused with inconvenient facts for you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    France is spending 5 times what the UK is. They could have quite easily said 'it's your problem' but they didn't, they behaved like adults, came to an agreement with Sunak (having been repeatedly rebuffed by Brexit hero - Boris)and are investing 5 times more to try solve an English problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So the refugee crises in France is an English problem? If the EU was not in crises to the extent that even last year 45,000-plus people risked their lives trying to cross the English channel in little rubber dinghies etc, some of them paying with their lives, then maybe those 45,000 would preferred to stay in France. You could not make it up.

    Reminds me of a man here I met in the eighties, when Ireland was a basket case and whole classes were emigrating, usually to the UK. This lad was giving off heaps about the UK and I remember he said "Maggie Thatcher has a lot to answer to". Yet his brother had gone to live in the North and he himself was going to emigrate to England for work. Poor lad was brainwashed and he did not even realise it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    His first sentence was "Oh, God, not this shIte again. It's like somebody has been asleep since 2016."

    His last sentence was "Try to keep up."

    Enough said.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: Right, I'm going to stop this here. The current line of discussion in not related to NI and it is somewhat pointless discussing stuff that has been proven otherwise.

    @Francis McM - up the quality of your posts here or I will have no hesitation in thread-banning you. I would also recommend that you up the quality on the other threads that you are posting in within the Politics forum because the calibre there is equally low.

    Now, let's get back to discussing Brexit and NI and stop with this silly Brexiteer nonsense



  • Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Remarkable that you made the same argument as downcow about the EU being so bad, people were risking their lives to escape it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I was referring to C&E, which applies throughout the UK, and particularly in NI, where the Stormont Executive under Poots has refused to build the required infrastructure to inspect imports from GB.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Takes some amount of front to do this. The party that tried to re-ignite the conflict over the GFA and who never accepted it




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Sammy Wilson, the party’s chief whip in Westminster, added it was “best they stay away altogether” given the “destructive” role of the EU in Northern Ireland.

    He added that inviting them to the events “would be like Ukrainians welcoming Russian politicians to Ukraine’s independence celebrations”

    Oh fúck off. Sorry, not exactly stellar contribution given the forum's requirements but I dearly wish these malcontents would be ignored by the mainstream press at this stage - but then paper never refused ink I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,495 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Surely it is the DUP who should stay away from GFA 25th anniversary events. It was agreed and has endured despite them, certainly not because of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That would be playing them at their own exclusionary game.

    The BBC is doing a 3 part biog of Ian Paisley Snr at the minute. What is abundantly clear from the footage they are showing is that the DUP policy of bigoted and sectarian exclusion has not changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,495 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Just pointing out the hypocrisy of them suggesting others should not be involved.

    When I read the first part of your second paragraph, I immediately assumed that you had put the g in the wrong place and left out the t. Funny how the mind automatically associates certain words with certain people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This isn't a great surprise. The DUP are desparate to blame the EU for the consequences of the policies which the DUP so enthusiastically supported because, of course, they are seeking to deflect blame from where it truly lies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Obviously, David Cameron thought the Remain side would win the 2016 referendum. But he must have known that a possible Leave victory would have implications for the Good Friday Agreement. So why didn't he just say to the euroskeptics in his party: "Sorry chaps but we have to respect international law"? Those euroskeptics wouldn't have been willing to destroy their own party, would they?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The fundamental flaw in that reasoning supposes any PM since Blair either read, or gave a damn, about the fate or stability of Northern Ireland. Cameron was myopic about his party's cohesion while Brexit has repeatedly shown itself as a distinctly English Nationalist phenomenon, spurred on by Disaster Capitalists; so stands to reason pesky things like the Scottish 2/3s for Remain, or anything risking the GFA was cheerfully ignored and dismissed as ungrateful, lesser siblings rocking the boat.

    The DUP ultimately useful idiots when required, after which become a total nuisance at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    But would the ERG Tories have really been willing to sink their own party to achieve Brexit? Cameron was the boss - so why didn't he act like it?!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Was it Raab that admitted he hadn’t bothered to read the GFA.

    Brexit happened because the UK elected the perfect storm of incompetents and opportunists.



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