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rsa supporting e-scooters

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Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I'm very pro cycling and scooter usage but I have been nearly hit by them a few times. It does happen frequently enough that it is a problem. Don't think I have been shouted at by any one doing it though. They shouldn't be on the footpath in the first place but if they are gonna do it they should go slow and give pedestrians a wide birth in case the pedestrian does something unexpected. It's what I do when I run past people because some times people turn abruptly, take something out of their pocket, take a bag of their back or whatever and if you cut close to them as you go past while they do that you run the risk of clattering them. Same with drivers driving past cyclists and only leave an inch between the wing mirror and the handlebar. A sudden gust of wind, small bump in the road or any sort of a wobble and the cyclist could clip the wing mirror and get milled as a result.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Same with drivers driving past cyclists and only leave an inch between the wing mirror and the handlebar. A sudden gust of wind, small bump in the road or any sort of a wobble and the cyclist could clip the wing mirror and get milled as a result.

    Just a minor point of clarification but the cyclist would not be the one doing the clipping.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Maybe it's a case of semantics but regardless it doesn't really matter as the driver is still fully in the wrong because giving feck all distance between the bike and the car is the ultimate cause and problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭Paddigol




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Going... going... GONE!

    Parisians vote to ban rental e-scooters from French capital by huge margin | Paris | The Guardian

    Given that they work fine in other cities, maybe it's the perfect example of how the problem is not with the object, but with the people using them.

    Anyway... it's too early on a Monday morning for me to get worked up enough to go on a rant...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,856 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well we don't have to ban them as they aren't legal. Govt like it does on many issue seems to plan on dragging this out so long in effect nothing happens.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,091 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was in berlin in november, and in parts of the city, the rental scooters were like litter. obviously it was not peak season, but it struck me that the various companies did not do demand management very well; and surely it'd be in their interests to keep the unused stock under cover and protected rather than leaving them out in the elements and subject to damage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Read this, this morning myself.

    Was in Hamburg last year in December and there are E-scooters hanging around everywhere. Like not in locking stations like the Dublin Bikes, just on the middle of the footpath. Kind of unusual looking.

    Hamburg has outstanding public transport, you'd wonder why they're even needed there.

    Very low turnout for the Paris vote, but the vote was held so.... 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Re the above posts - that's the whole point of the system over there. They're not tied to 'docking stations', which means they're much more flexible in terms of use and convenience for going from point to point. There are restrictions in where you can leave them - when you end a ride the app can detect where you are, and if it's in a no park zone you can't 'end' the ride and lock the scooter. If you dump it, you'll keep getting charged per minute and as the scooter is unlocked, anyone could hop on it and go for a joyride at your expense.

    If you want a scooter, you just open the app, it checks your location and shows you all available scooters nearby on the map.

    With responsible use they really are a very handy alternative for getting around a city when time is a factor. I'd definitely use them in Dublin if they were here, even just for grabbing a coffee on the other side of the city over lunch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,712 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I guarantee if the vote was to ban cyclists, that would have passed as well. If Brexit has taught us anything, it's that democracy just doesn't work!

    I saw the mess the rental scooters can cause in Brussels, but surely there's a better solution than just banning them altogether. The danger aspect seems overblown, are they really any worse than cars or bikes? Motorbikes are super dangerous, no-one is suggesting banning them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,937 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Was the vote a blanket ban on e-scooters or a ban on rental scooters ?

    I'm assuming that licensing for rental scooters could be significantly tightened up - so they're not abandoned everywhere..

    I'd be intrigued to know the age profile of voters in that paris vote ,

    I'd imagine older ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,091 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    just on rental scooters.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    322679231_1208635450086148_7377530527005475195_n.jpg

    Funny how the focus is on e-scooters but people generally ignore the stuff that takes up far, far more room.

    One thing with e-scooters, they are incredibly space efficient both while in use and parked when compared to cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Believe you are right and this will happen in City's that bring in such restriction on licensing from the dockless solutions - the e-scooter rental providers will have to use a Docking model similar to the Dublinbikes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭JMcL


    Minuscule turnout of about 7.5%, and weighted towards older voters apparently so that was only going to go one way. It was an interesting move by Anne Hidalgo (mayor) to have a vote rather than just banning them by decree. For anyone using them that didn't get off their arse to go out and cast their vote and is feeling a bit sore, they've no comeback.

    That said the free for all with the scooters just being dumped n'importe ou,as they'd say over here and the frequency of them being ridden at speed on the footpath was never going to garner much love



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,091 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    For anyone using them that didn't get off their arse to go out and cast their vote and is feeling a bit sore, they've no comeback.

    It could well be that a huge proportion of the user base are visitors to Paris and thus don't get a vote. Let's say they had 10k Parisians using them on a daily basis, i.e. maybe 1% of the electorate there; they would probably vote. Those against them would easily outnumber that, those who don't use them probably not going to bother voting (unless they're against them).

    In short, it's not an issue which should have gone to a vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭JMcL


    I'd agree with all you say, and the hope is that the result will be a big wake up call for the companies that they have a responsibility for the conduct of their users and can't just shrug their shoulders and say "not me guv'nor". All this is possible, though GPS wouldn't nave the accuracy to say the scooter is neatly parked at the side of the path rather than slap bank in the middle, but making the companies responsible for dumped scooters would concentrate their minds. Yes there is the possibility that some toerag could chuck them around after being parked, but they should be able to mitigate against that.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    Or if you do put it to a vote it should require a min turnout of say 40%



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    Don't bleeper or bolt bikes require you take a photo showing where you parked it? (one of them certainly does). Bolt bikes also can only be parked in specific areas...you can't lock them unless you are in that specific area.

    The tech clearly exists to control dockless bikes/scooters, its just some company's are unwilling to use it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,856 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    It was the same with the ones I've used in Berlin. You take a photo of the parked scooter in an approved zone, and then the app confirms the ride has ended. Possibly a lot of the problem is scrotes knocking them over when they're parked? I dunno. Agreed though, if the will was there it should be easy enough to find solutions to the problem if it arises in some cities. But again, the issue is human behaviour and not the 'evil eScooter'.

    On the docking bay point, I used to take a Dublin Bike from around Stephens Green to the IFSC for work in the mornings years ago. Frequently you couldn't dock the bike on arrival as the stand was full. And then yesterday I passed a Dublin Bike stand on Leeson St Bridge to find someone taking out the last available bike. Plus you have the real inconvenience of the limited range you can travel one-way on a Dublin Bike due to the lack of stations - are there any south of the canal?

    A walk to Donnybrook for coffee over lunch would take me 30 minutes at least. Probably less than 10 on a Dublin Bike or eScooter, but there's nowhere to park the Dublin Bike there. That issue wouldn't arise with an eScooter and is the perfect example of how they make cities more liveable without taking away from other forms of public transport. Unfortunately, as with so many progressive solutions the initial reaction seems to be fear, contempt and apathy instead of adopting them and finding a way to integrate them in a safe, healthy and beneficial way. Whereas here - again as pointed out above - we do the classic Irish thing of not legislating for them but turning a blind eye as they proliferate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,091 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this was not atypical of what we saw in berlin; that's leaving our hotel, the footpad blocked by scooters. it was noticeably less common right in the city centre though.

    PXL_20221109_085454287.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,712 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    yeah, Brussels is similar, dumped all over the place. I believe DCC have already said that won't be allowed in Dublin, that there will be specific areas designated for the scooters and users that don't comply will be fined by the operators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    That's just pure ignorance. I'm always city-centre based when I'm there and see very little of that. At the risk of stereotyping, could it be that tourists coming back to their hotels are the culprits, while the civic-minded locals all manage to get on just fine?

    But yes, user's dumping their eScooters inappropriately is an inherent risk/ flaw in the model, and one that the companies and city councils should work together on to mitigate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,091 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we never actually saw anyone using the ones near our hotel - and we were not that far out, we were down near the east side gallery.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I haven't been to Berlin since just before Convid but was a frequent traveller up to then. I actually found most of the scooters on the footpath were on their side and you'd be stepping over them. It was somewhat surreal because they were (are) illegal here but were in abundance in Berlin.

    FWIW, one of the bike rental companies also had gone bust just before then and it was common enough to see their bikes strewn about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,198 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    We were at the East Side gallery having lunch along the banks of the river and a dredger pulled in to offload a skipload of Lime and the other two main companies ebikes/escooters and the large moped sized electric scooters that they'd pulled from the riverbed covered in mud and those invasive goose barnacles, he said they do this all day twice a week and it just gets worse as time goes on.

    All these companies are barely profitable as it is, Id say they'll struggle to stay going once the hot startup money runs out and they have to stand on their own. Cant complain about my experience with Lime in Berlin though, we had an absolute blast shooting around on the scooters and the system worked flawlessly, great way to get around the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭JMcL


    I was in Palermo a couple of months ago, and while they were dumped a bit wily nily, they weren't actually blocking everything in an ignorant manner, so maybe the authorities down there have mandated zones. I can understand why DCC are moving slowly though. I don't tend to be in Dublin City Center all that much these days, but on evidence of my last trip - albeit the 6 Nations final day mixed with Paddy's weekend - space is more than ever at a premium.

    Just to clarify my previous posts, I'm not at all against dockless bikes/scooters - I think they have the potential to provide a very flexible and valuable service in many cities. As with anything else though there's a cohort of users who don't give a flying that sour it for everbody else plus businesses aren't going to do anything about it in the absence of a big stick



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,712 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    DCC aren't moving slowly, the legislation still hasn't been passed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,078 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Funny how older Parisians came out to vote to ban e scooters while the younger crowd who are presumably mainly escooter users, didn't bother their arses. Maybe too busy making molotov cocktails, who knows?



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