Irish Property Market chat II - read mod note post #1 before posting

Beigepaint · 23-03-2023 07:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393041#Comment_120393041

It’s a very generous interpretation there to favour anti-social usage of property.

If a property is used for short term lets, then the property owner should pay the anti-social usage charge. He can take it up with his tenant if they are subletting it without his permission.

BlueSkyDreams · 23-03-2023 07:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393094#Comment_120393094

Exactly. Unless the LA staff are fluting about & scratching their proverbials all day, where are they going to find the time to complete all of these additional tasks?

It feels very much like a govt lip service policy that has not been thought through, costed or funded.

23-03-2023 08:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393101#Comment_120393101

I’m not sure where the “anti social charge” aspect come from. Whilst I have no doubt some guests cause disturbance, my own experience is that over the last 5 years no guests have ever disturbed the neighbours. I know this because we used to live in the house and meet our former neighbours regularly, I always ask them to let me know if there are any problems. They said there never has been. So I don’t think you can categorise shortlet guests as antisocial, and not do the same with tenants. At least the guests leave on a Sunday evening, an antisocial tenant could be there for years.

23-03-2023 08:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393112#Comment_120393112

Exactly, considering staff cannot be in more than one place at once, they are either going to have to take on a huge volume of staff to enforce this, or have a few staff sitting in a car outside a suspected short let for days waiting for a guest to turn up. Then they have to hope that the guest will answer the questions asked and confirm that they are shortlet guests.

Beigepaint · 23-03-2023 08:07PM

Lots of bizarro work creation fantasies here.

Here is the list of short term letting companies {airBnb, ..., facebook}.

Revenue hold this list and update this list weekly.

If you receive money from any of these companies, revenue charge you x%.

There is no need for a crack team of government agents to catch you red handed or any of that silly nonsense.

Polluter pays.

23-03-2023 08:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393094#Comment_120393094

They can start quickly by looking at their own staff

https://www.ontheditch.com/dublin-city-council-architect/

BlueSkyDreams · 23-03-2023 08:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393140#Comment_120393140

Indeed. And those same LAs will no doubt soon have targets to purchase x number of private rental properties as part of the eviction ban fall out.

I expect this will take A LOT of resource to manage. And it almost certainly wont be additionally funded resource.

23-03-2023 08:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393146#Comment_120393146

What? Do you have any insight into this beyond “polluter pays”?

Airbnb accept bookings and payments, deduct their fee and then pay the host. Sites like bookings.com, Facebook, and the many other sites when you google “holiday let’s Ireland” are just advertising sites, facilitators, they may not have records of bookings and do not process payments, so cannot forward income information or even confirm that a guest stayed there.

And yes, the “silly nonsense” , otherwise known as evidence of wrongdoing, is necessary if a prosecution is to succeed.

Beigepaint · 23-03-2023 08:42PM

Short term lets are inherently anti-social.

Lessors use their domestic property to extract money from foreigners.

While local people live with their parents into their 30s.

You didn't think you were doing us a favour did you?

If your car goes through the m50, do you pay the toll? Only if the minister for transport signs an affadavit to say that he witnessed your hands on the steering wheel?

No. The car goes through, the owner pays.

We don't need fantasies about huge burdens of proof.

23-03-2023 08:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393268#Comment_120393268

The vast majority of guests who have stayed in my Airbnb have been Irish, families or friends away for short stays who want to share a property rather than a hotel, and want to be able to self cater.

There is nothing inherently anti social about that. As I said, there is no doubt that some people do experience noise disruption, but to say all guests cause it is ill informed.

Beigepaint · 23-03-2023 09:32PM

Short term lets are anti-social in the same way as graffiti or dog fouling - they make the area worse for everyone who lives there.

I never mentioned noise pollution although that is definitely a part of it.

These people should be in hotels.

Timing belt · 23-03-2023 09:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393216#Comment_120393216

All they need is a few bodies sat behind a computer. Get the address add the person to a list for a revenue audit. They will just estimate the income and apply a fine for breach of planning.. fine needs to be substantial and not some Mickey Mouse amount. Could be up and running within a month if the will was there

24-03-2023 07:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393482#Comment_120393482

https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/documents/s21520/Resourcing%20of%20Enforcement%20relating%20to%20Short%20Term%20Accommodation%20units.pdf

”The enforcement of short term lettings is logistically very difficult with problems establishing ownership, gaining access to apartments/houses and most importantly a requirement to prove illegal occupation. Hearsay evidence regarding proof of use will also be a problem as the short term guests in situ at the time of inspections will be gone and will not be in a position to give evidence on our behalf. This fact alone will require Planning Enforcement Officers to go out in pairs in many cases to make their evidence admissible in Court if the need arises. The production of internet listings of properties from short term letting platforms will not be sufficient evidence to proceed to issue an Enforcement Notice or sustain a conviction in Court. The onus will be on the Local Authority to provide first hand evidence of occupation of properties for short term/holiday letting purposes. “

The 2019 amendment requires registration, this has been largely ignored, I can only assume that the new legislation which will now have to wait until the end of the year would have strengthened the regulation of shortletting.

https://assets.gov.ie/111126/2758966b-092a-4f21-83c2-dce04c9f6748.pdf

”This warning letter should be followed up by site inspections to ascertain whether there is any concrete substance to the case”

It may seem as simple as you suggested, but if the Host is being paid in cash and the LA don’t have proof because a few bodies sat behind a computer can’t provide concrete substance, then it’s difficult to see how it would be up and running in a month.

Ozark707 · 24-03-2023 08:40AM

The whole Airbnb/STL enforcement discussion probably merits its own topic but getting council staff to manually enforce is always going to be difficult so the placing of a requirement for platforms to check registrations is the best way to proceed. The EU has shown it can wield sizeable fines for non compliance in other areas so that shouldn't be an issue here.

DataDude · 24-03-2023 09:20AM

Mixed mortgage approval data this morning.

FTB approval volumes down nearly 5% on February last year and also below Feb 2021, but on the flip side average approval values just smashed through the all time high set last summer and is 6% higher than last Feb.

Signs of people holding back, but no signs of the banks tightening up on higher rates. 4x LTI & wage inflation already having an impact.

24-03-2023 10:24AM

The bottom of the market is quickly becoming the middle. The quality of a house at 330k vs a house a 395k is absolutely massive. The 4x mortgage allowance has only increased the price of the bottom of the market. Every house at 280k+ goes for at least 30k over asking.

House prices may be "dropping" but for every €1m house which drops €100k, the bottom of the market has crept up 30k. Look at the average house prices on Proper.ie, they're staying the same, but the higher end of the market prices have dropped due to the amount having to be paid in interest.

People at the lower end will still buy up property as they're saving loads on a mortgage that costs 1500, vs 2500 for similar renting. The market is broken.

enricoh · 24-03-2023 10:25AM

Last time I was on Airbnb in Dublin a lot of the hosts renting the entire apartment were polish, Brazilian etc. A lot of the apartment owners would be oblivious to the fact that the place was on Airbnb and just get paid the rent imo. Bit harsh getting fined if being sublet like that.

Beigepaint · 24-03-2023 11:05AM

Is it? Maybe if you’re harvesting rent from a property you should go look at it once a year?

Make a special trip.

timmyntc · 24-03-2023 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394875#Comment_120394875

You are required to give notice in advance of an inspection so tenants could just ensure it isnt rented out that day.

herbalplants · 24-03-2023 11:14AM

Another one

Glassdoor briefing Irish staff as it announces plans to cut 15% of workforce

dontmindme · 24-03-2023 11:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394450#Comment_120394450

What's the problem with the council investigators booking a room for the night? Surely having taken the booking is enough evidence.

dontmindme · 24-03-2023 11:19AM

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-riversdale-grove-kimmage-dublin-6w/4688630

Price drop: Was asking €350,000 since before Christmas.

combat14 · 24-03-2023 11:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394942#Comment_120394942

14% drop in 3 months not bad continued interest rate hikes and persistant high inflation will eventually have an effect

Beigepaint · 24-03-2023 11:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394881#Comment_120394881

“Hi Mr Tenant, I got a letter from revenue that says my property is on a short term letting site. Did you forget to tell me? Anyway, we are being audited. Call this phone number”

24-03-2023 11:50AM

That house needs some amount of work

MacronvFrugals · 24-03-2023 01:04PM

Not sure its possible to build our way out of these numbers.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41100601.html

J_1980 · 24-03-2023 01:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394942#Comment_120394942

This property is not mortgageable.

only for builders/professionals or cash buyers. Guess too expensive for either.

24-03-2023 02:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395096#Comment_120395096

“Hi Mr Landlord, sorry about you being audited, don’t know what you are talking about, and if I did, I wouldn’t care because it will take you two years to evict me”

24-03-2023 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395435#Comment_120395435

Whats with the huge increase from France?

24-03-2023 02:28PM

Leo telling tenants today that they can overhold when served with an eviction notice

Judges will be ‘very reluctant’ to enforce evictions, Leo Varadkar says

Evictions in Ireland can only be ordered by the courts,” Mr Varadkar told journalists on his way into the second day of an EU summit in Brussels this morning.

“People often mix up notices of termination with evictions...and I would expect those numbers to continue to be very small. And I can guarantee you that judges are very reluctant to evict people into homelessness.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/03/24/judges-will-be-very-reluctant-to-enforce-evictions-leo-varadkar-says/

Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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Irish Property Market chat II - read mod note post #1 before posting