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I don't know what a pension is

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    They dont take 80% of your income they take 80% of the person's pension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    We have a housing crisis, people who are 40 will have major problems when they retire, how will they pay rent ? many people cant buy a house or apartment, you can do ok on 200 euro a week if you own your own house,and have no rent to pay.how much will energy costs, grocerys cost rise in 20 years.rents and housing costs are going up every year. i don,t think gen z in general thinks about what will they be doing in 40 years from now , schools dont teach basic subjects, like how to get a mortgage, fixed rate loans, pensions,how to save, things every adult needs to know.As you grow up you are expected to learn all this yourself or talk to your friends about it. Most people are maybe more concerned about paying rent, or a mortgage than paying a pension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭Jambonjunior


    Affordability was cited as the main reason by 40pc of employees who said they have no supplementary pension cover

    Some 47pc said they never got around to organising it or would organise it at a future date.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/majority-expect-to-have-to-rely-on-the-state-pension-when-they-retire-42356048.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    That's why there has to be mandatory pensions no choice but to pay in to a pension, from first job as a teen to last job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    It's REALLY accurate defined benefits schemes totally collapsed. Are you telling me people should have been expecting credit suisse /silicon valley (yeah I know they are business banks) to go and a whole wave of european banking madness in the next five years?


    2008 wiped more than 4 billion off private pensions i don't know what you are talking about.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,136 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Did you even read the last line of my post?

    The S&P is up 307% since 2008, it doesnt matter that it went down then, as long as you werent trying to cash in at that time.

    Hence the entire point, dont leave your pension somewhere volatile if you are looking to cash it in soon.

    Pension (in fact investing) 101.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Dude you realize some people RETIRED THAT VERY YEAR RIGHT? And it doesn't matter that it recovered it's still nothing what it would have been.


    And the WHOLE point of 2008 wasn't that what was destroyed wasn't typical volatile investments. Silicon Valley put cash into US Govt bonds. That just happened a couple of weeks ago.


    Mortgage backed securities are not typically high risk...in fact they are considered low risk. yes they are what causes the 2008 collapse and became essentially worthless overnight.


    I guarantee you have mortgage backed securities as part of your pension investments.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    To start with four billion is peanuts when it comes to pension funds…..

    And having MBS in a pension fund is not of itself is not a bad thing….

    And it does not matter that banking is likely to contract another 40% in the next decade…

    Contrary to popular belief, property is a high risk asset class and should only account for less than about 6% of an average portfolio. In the Anglo sphere world property and property related product holdings go well into the double digits and bad things happen when you do dumb stuff there is no magic involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,136 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I don't know how else to explain this to you.

    If you are retiring that year, don't hold all your investment in single category high risk stocks. Again, investing 101.

    I 100% do have mortgages in my pension, but I'm not close to retirement, so who cares?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,017 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Lads no one is saying to kill yourself paying into a private pension and going without. Even if you put in a 100 quid a month from your 20s and kept that up you'd have a decent bit to top up your state pension every week.

    We are living longer and longer, science is advancing all the time. I want a bit of luxury in my final years not the basics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭Trigger Happy


    Some people will expend a lot of energy and time to justify not having a private pension. I am not sure there is any convincing them.

    If they want to take the chance that everything will be ok and future governments will look after them then let them at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    I have a pension but only because my company matches it.

    If I wasn't getting anything from my company, I'd not pay into a pension.

    The pension people always say you need a pension to be able live the same lifestyle you live now. But what pensioner will have the same costs as they do now? Mortgage, saving requirements, childcare, good car for commuting, home improvements etc. All big costs!

    You can go on about how no one will own their own home in future but I think about 70% of people own their own home right now. A lot of people will inherit homes or they'll eventually buy down the line.

    When I'm 70 I'm not gonna be worrying about how much money I'll need in 20 years, like I am now.

    Pensioners now are some of the most wealthy in the country and they didn't need a private pension. How often do we hear of pensioners getting scammed for tens of thousands in romance scams or house repair scams. My own grandparents had **** all money when they were living their life, searching for pennies. Now they're old and can't go out they have loads of money and have to give it away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I think there’s only something like 52% literacy in Ireland relating to general financial services products and information which is low enough- I’d say it’s much less for pensions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,136 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    So you wouldn't take advantage of the effectively free money you get from a tax free investment like a pension? Why on earth not?

    Yeah those big costs will have gone, but so will your salary!

    Unless you think that Ireland is going to be a 1 child family haven I dont see how inheritance is going to lead to everyone owning their own home?

    How can you say that current pensioners didnt need a private pension? Many of our current pensioners retired with a nice DB, thats why we are so screwed now, the funds cant support these payments anymore. Some of our pensioners are very wealthy, but they retired from well paying jobs, your average pensioner is not wealthy. Why would we have free public transport, fuel allowance, medical card, etc, etc if what you state is true?

    I think you are in for a big shock when you retire to be honest.

    Assuming you have 10 years + of PRSI contributions and are over 66 you get €265.30 a week or about 40 quid a day. If your partner is also over 66 and doesn't qualify themselves you can get an additional €237.80.

    That's €13K a year by yourself. Best of luck buying a car, or a holiday or food on that.

    Btw the poverty line threshold in 2021 was €12K.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,761 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    And that's assuming the state pension and other allowances keep up with inflation, that seems unlikely in an ageing population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,136 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Only if they increase PRSI and push the pension age up more.

    But perhaps the poster is happy to keep working until they are 70?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,761 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Not just happy, they also have to be able to work.

    I think a lot of people are going to have a fairly bleak retirement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,569 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    🤣 Just as well you have that pension or you'd be in for a huge shock otherwise. Life far from stops at retirement and having the funds for travel, hobbies, and generally enjoying the free time is a must. Homes need maintenance as they age, cars need changing and you don't retire to stagnate in front of a TV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You're ignoring the very substantial tax relief benefit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    When do I need money most? Now.

    When will I need money the least? When I'm retired (house owned, kids raised etc.)

    Yeah there's tax advantages (you are putting away money that would be taxed at high rate and then you'll pay low rate when my salary is gone) but is it really worth locking that money away for 35+ years? Wouldn't it be better use to me now? If I am putting 2.5k into a pension each year, would I not have better use for the 1300 euro every year when I am going through the most busy, stressful time of my life? Rather than having 1600+ a year when I'm older and I'd probably struggle to spend all my money.

    I don't know where you're from, but vast majority of pensioners in my area only get state pension. Sure a lot of women pensioners never even worked and they're alright.

    If you're working for 40+ years then chances are you'll have some money saved up anyways so if you wanted to splash the cash on a nice car or holiday you'd be able do it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    Is it really worth it to lock the money away for 35/40 years?

    Would you rather find 200k today or 400k in 40 years?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,136 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    "I need it now" completely ignores that you also need it after you retire.

    Yes it is worth locking it away, lookup compound growth.

    1300 a year will be worth an awful lot more than 1600 and year after 35+ of growth.

    How do you know they are "alright"? What real insight do you have?

    Your post is one large contradiction.

    On one hand you need the money now but on the other you are also saving for your retirement? Just doesn't add up at all I'm afraid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,136 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    1300 a month over 35 years on deposit will get you ~790K

    that same amount in a pension will be worth ~2.25M

    I think you need to actually look at the maths before you post again :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    I'm only "saving for my retirement" because my company are putting in money which makes it far far more attractive than just my own money.

    If I have 20k in a pension pot, I'd have far better use of the 10k post tax amount that could be used towards a house purchase instead of renting with fools and suffering from mental health issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    There's a difference between amount and value.

    You're looking at the total amounts, not the value a smaller amount gives over a larger amount in 40 years.

    You didn't answer whether you'd prefer 200k today or 400k in 40 years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I approach 60, the prospect of working until 65 fills me with despair. Hopefully get out at about 62, and draw down on my private pension, and maybe pick up a part time job until I'm 65. I want to be able to do things when I retire, while I still have some healthy years left.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    There is no way you can magic up 200k today and after 40 years the sum would be around a multiple of three or possibly four. So your question just does not make any sense what so ever.

    As for is it worth it? it really depends on whether you thing your time will be well spent spending 20 years watching the grass grow, living on a strict budget and trying to make ends meet.

    The demographics are changing in Ireland just like in the rest of Europe and the only acceptable solution to solving the pension crisis is to move to the three pillar system, which Ireland is slowly but surely doing. In the three pillar system, your first pillar - the state pension, will cover about three months living expenses, the rest you need to make up yourself from a second pension (private or employer based pension) and your third pillar additional savings encouraged through tax breaks. There are no other options because there simply won't be a sufficient workforce to maintain your first pillar pension.

    Now you can dream up all the scenarios you think are smart, but none of then are going to change the reality that awaits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    There's no pension crisis.

    The whole "who will pay for your pensions when you're 70" will be solved by immigration because pensions rely on strong economies.

    So if you have an economy of mostly old people who don't spend their money on consumer products, holidays, travel etc. then the economy will go down the shitter and the pension funds would drastically fall anyways resulting in the same "who will pay for your pension" question.

    Like do people really think the pensioners of today who mostly rely on state pensions, paid enough in tax over their years to cover their own pension? No we rely on taxpayers and immigration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,017 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Same all going to plan I'm out the gap at 60. At the very least give up the 9 to 5 gigs.

    I can't subscribe to this shite that you keep working to stay active and of sound mind. There is plenty of things I could do right now instead of work nevermind when I'm 60.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's just it , some of my best experiences in life were active hillwalking or cycling holidays, want to spend a month in the alps, or doing the Camino, get away from office politics, and the mundane shite of work.



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