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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,123 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    That guy is clueless, it's clearly as you say, a drone similar to that of a Shahed. There's images of the wreckage on Telegram suggesting it's of Chinese origin.

    It's great to see Ukraine turning the tables like this. Make the Russians expend valuable air defence munitions on targets of lesser value.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    China plays the long game. They have zero need to invade or any of that. That crap costs money and they have Russia in the bag anyway.

    This war of putin's lasting so long is no doubt pissed Xi off initially as it has revved up NATO and is generally bad for business and I suspect they wanted it over and done because of that. However, things have changed and on the other hand Russia being so isolated which came as a shock, has been a major boon for China. They buy Russian oil at knockdown prices and with their pledges of "help" can leverage even more from Mother Russia now and in the future. China imports a lot of resources, energy and raw materials mostly from not so "friendly" nations, or nations that if they imposed sanctions could really hurt China's economy. eg iron from Australia.

    Russia is extremely resource rich. Far more than China. It's also a dictatorship with a declining population who will do what they're told. China can just leverage putin in a way they simply couldn't with a democracy to supply China more and more with oil, gas, wood*, ores etc. "Supporting" Russia also plays well to the various African states where China is already weilding a lot of soft power to economically colonise, and they need cheaper younger bodies to make crap, cheaper, younger bodies they're running out of. At the same time they also need the "West" to keep buying their crap, simply because those outside same don't have the cash to do so. A balancing act. One the Chinese are doing very well at. Far better than the US who are still stomping around thinking they're doing all the driving. Never mind their internal divisions that seem to be gaining pace.

    For China it would seem keeping this war going has a few advantages. Namely to set the hook deep in Russia's mouth. On the other hand if they broker a peace deal or the war ends, they've stuck the hook pretty deep already. Win win. Putin so afraid and jealous of not being part of a "multipolar world" and "American hegemony" has bent over and near guaranteed Russia is now China's bitch and under their "hegemony". Worse, Russia had looked towards the "West", especially the EU as his and Russia's best bet. Look where pretty much all of their pipelines went, west, not east. Look at where most of their foreign investment came from. Now that's all gone since the "chessmaster" buggered that up in a pointless local dick waving war with Ukraine.

    Putin will go along with this because he has no real choice. Xi's visit is all about making sure the dog knows who the master is. I'd even suggest putin not showing up to meet him at the airport is the last vain attempt of the dog shaking his head to avoid the inevitable muzzle. The Chinese are big on etiquette, proper procedure and "face", but especially with an equal or a threat. IMHO Xi agreeing to hop off the plane and not meet Czar putin shows no fúcks given. A wee dog biscuit to make it more palatable before the muzzle goes on.



    *the Chinese was already buying up and hacking down huge swathes of Russian forest in the east Wood is one of China's biggest imports and most is coming from Russia, because - and this is the joke - China started to worry about buggering up their own environment over a decade ago.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭rogber


    According to the Ukrainians themselves, pretty much everyone misjudged. This isn't exactly news:

    President Volodymyr Zelenskyy recalled that when the invasion began, ‘most people who called me – well, almost everyone – did not have faith that Ukraine can stand up to this and persevere.’ National Security and Defence Council Secretary Olexiy Danilov remembered the West believed Ukraine had, ‘almost zero chances to succeed'.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭rogber


    I doubt plenty of things the Russians claim. But I do believe Putin is still alive and meeting Xi jinping (who survived that "coup" you believed in!) right now, while you probably think it's a Putin (and Xi?) double, right?

    And let me guess, one of your Twitter sources is also predicting Belarus will enter the war this Friday?

    Keep up the good work!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,873 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thats not what you said,you said wrong about Putins health,running out of ammo,missiles

    and you also said experts saying it,i didnt know Zelensky was an expert on war



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,273 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec



    China has invested phenomenal wads of money in Russian Arctic ports, and China will no doubt be the biggest earner from this investment. The end result will be that Chinese goods will be shipped to the West through the Arctic ports instead of via the present southern routes. Because of this, I think the Chinese have every incentive to get Putin to toe the line and not have things escalate any further. The Chinese have got most of the planet by the balls, and that includes Russia.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    They have to play a balancing game too. Covid showed up the West(and others) over reliance on China with things like PPE, even medicines and if Xi pushes too hard he could face the West bringing more and more manufacturing back "home", or away from China anyway, to places like India, Vietnam etc(already happening). regardless of the ports Xi uses the stuff is still being mostly sold to the "West" or Western alligned nations.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The Ukrainians really know how to troll. Pic of what's left of Chinese made drone that helped hit Russian targets in Crimea.

    FrtILdbXsAIPxEH.jpg

    😂

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Depleted uranium anyone,

    Claims the UK will transfer Depleted uranium ammunition to Ukraine ,I believe tank rounds, famously known from the gulf war can literally kill/vaporise any armoured vehicles in one shot, also known for leaving behind radiation and contamination that seeps to the ground for years to come ,

    Not 100% on this one myself..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,071 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The Chinese also have incentives to see it continue or escalate.


    From a long term position. Greater incentives.


    Xi has had 5 meetings with Putin in 12 months, some admittedly Tele meetings but a day long chat is still a big deal. He is showing clear backing for the comrade in the Kremlin.


    Benefits to China from war going on.


    US and West occupied in Eastern Europe. While China focuses on buying leaders, resources and infrastructure across Asia and Africa.


    Longer it goes on the more damage to NATO, understocked and under resourced is the glaring fact for most NATO armies, especially in Western Europe. Nor does the will to change that appear to exist in most countries.


    Much of the West will get war weary, Washington, London, the Baltics and Poles are in for the long haul, most of the rest of Europe?? Many of them were carried along so far by pressure.


    We always hear how China is dependent on the West to buy exports, it's very important but 90% of China's economy is domestic or with countries it borders. This isn't 2001 anymore.


    Who knows what China will do but Xi is a much tougher, brutal and ruthless man than Putin is and the only question in his mind is how can he use this to advance Chinese global power above the West.



    Xi might be a little sore that Russia didn't storm through Ukraine and have Moldova taken now as well. He'll adapt and carry on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Can't see much goods for the EU shipped to those Russian ports for a long time given what they have done in Ukraine.

    There's a large swathe of the EU that wants nothing to do with Russia now, it is a generational rupture I think.

    Would disagree - there are no signs at all the Chinese will push the "friend" to "toe the line" beyond perhaps telling Putin they would really prefer he didn't use WMD on the Ukrainians (a low bar)!

    The only problem the Chinese have with what happened last Feb. and is still happening in Ukraine is they, like a lot of people, misjudged Russia's military strength.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭thomil


    From my understanding, the issue with depleted uranium shells is not so much that they're radioactive, as the radiation they emit is actually relatively weak, at least when compared to fuel-grade or weapons-grade uranium. I mean, those shells can basically be handled without protective equipment. The big issue is that the uranium is pulverized by the force of the impact on a target, and the resulting uranium dust is easily ingested or breathed in. And even a weak source of radiation can still be harmful or lethal when it's inside your body.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Given there are many clips/pieces of translated insanity and depravity from Russian state media posted here taken from Twitter (usually Julia Davis [author of piece], and occasionally BBC), may as well post below. 

    In it she catalogues examples of dehumanising & openly genocidal Russian state media rhetoric against Ukrainians, aired while propagandising the war over the last year or so. Trying to be optimistic, hopefully we'll see such details appear as evidence some day.🤞




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,468 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Amazing how gas can be cheaper when you have reliable suppliers that don't throttle supply to manipulate the price.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭pcardin


    FB_IMG_1679404503582.jpg

    China is happy now, dominating ruSSia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I'll take that with a large pinch of salt. They very recently let a freighter with Orc munitions through, that were picked up in Syria.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    So Russia admit they took Ukrainian children by force but it’s only to protect them from the horrors of war.


    This is the 21st century folks.


    How we can all watch this unfold.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I think it's ironic she's using that quote from Asimov's Foundation, where a remnant of the empire starts a military expansion but gets crushed by economic sanctions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,637 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Depleted uranium can contaminate soil, groundwater and can be absorbed by plants in contaminated soils, thereby entering the food chain.

    Besides, most tank kills in Ukraine have been from ATGMs. Adding in radioactive tank shells will just do even more damage to Ukrainian territory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Dear Timmyntc,

    If you could please provide a list of peer reviewed sources and citations for each of the claims contained herein.

    And where possible any contact details emails, phone numbers, where applicable for any of these sources. A well formatted excel sheet for cross reference purposes should do nicely.

    Thanks. Yours sincerely, V



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Can't imagine too many orc's will want to face getting vaporised ,



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    China's economy isn't so great the more one digs. EG one third of their GDP is made up of real estate and ancillary businesses to do with real estate and that market has contracted massively. Real estate values are down by up to 20% in a few cities. Never mind that China's real estate market is one of the worst asset bubbles in history ready to pop. Consider this; 70% of private investment in China is in real estate. The highest in the world by a large margin. Much of it never finished, or when it is never to be lived in. At our worst we had ghost estates, they have ghost cities and towns.

    Government sticking their nose in to "regulate" hasn't helped in other areas. For example last year Alibaba's net income dropped by half, sales flattened and it lost 600billion of its market value from its peak in 2020. Again in 2022 a record high of one in five workers between 18-24 were unemployed. Not good. And that's in the cities as rural unemployment isn't factored into official figures. Official figures and we've seen such figures are often massaged for public use.

    Foreign investments are down and contracting as again state interference has made foreign investors wary. That's before their zero covid strategy which really didn't help. The IMF cut its forecast for China's growth down from 8% in 2021 to 3.4% last year. Oh and at the end of last year the Yuan fell to its lowest rate against the dollar and lowes point since the last bubble popped in 2018. That shows what investors, The Money(tm) thinks. Always follow The Money(tm).

    On wider problems their birthrate hit its lowest level on record in 2022. And that's in the face of governmental incentives like cheaper housing, more maternal leave and straight up cash payments. The same model tried in Russia and failing. Plus unlike Western concerns like the US and the EU who have large immigrant populations and are seen as the places to go(and chessmaster putin has just "gifted" Europe with many hundreds of thousands of other Europeans, and pretty much nobody wants to move to Russia), China is nearly as closed off as Japan. Worse if anything as it's almost impossible for a foreigner to gain Chinese citizenship and try being a foreigner running a business there. So they have a shrinking workforce that will continue to shrink, yet at the same time 1 in 5 of their existing young people can't find work currently. So we have a situation where 70% of private wealth is in housing, for a contracting population who won't live in them and who will pay for their elderly when their young workforce contracts even more?

    Now Xi knows all this, all too well. Though how he's gone about changing tack has actually been negative in a few areas. That's the big problem has; Xi. He's the emperor with a mandate from heaven so nothing, or very little happens policy wide without his direct and clear say so, which tends to mean underlings are very wary of going against him, or even bringing too much bad news to him as they don't want to be publicly "escorted" from the room. In this him an putin are very similar and face the same issues as autocrats always do, and the nations they rule end up facing.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    That War Monitor account peddles a lot of rubbish and he appears to be citing RIA which is Russian media so I wouldn't give much credence to this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I did read it (!) but that passed me by - what was the Foundation quote?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    That's why I Said I wasn't 100% on this one ,

    As far as I can remember off the top of my head , they are an American weapon with very tight restrictions on who , where and when they can be used ,

    Wouldn't expect them ever to deployed anywhere in Ukraine or Europe



This discussion has been closed.
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