Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

AbusesToilets · 16-03-2023 7:10pm

made for counter attacking though, which we've shown plenty of ability for.

fitz · 16-03-2023 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120367383#Comment_120367383

And their kicking game isn't that accurate... our back three will punish loose kicking. van Poortvliet's box kicking in particular is going to give plenty of counter attacking opportunity.

18-03-2023 8:19pm

A remarkable stat from this year's tournament: tries conceded

Ireland: 6

France: 14(!!!)

Scotland: 12

England: 18

Wales: 19

Italy: 22

Incredible from Ireland to limit to 6 tries conceded all competition.

blackcard · 18-03-2023 9:10pm

I had hoped that Ireland would win the 6 nations but there were a number of bonuses.

*Average winning margin of 16 points

*The large number of line breaks we created

*Bealham, Tom O'Toole stepping up to the mark.

*Only conceding 6 tries

*Our scrum holding up

*Conan showing signs of returning to form

*Baird showing he is not out of place

*Consistent performances by Byrne

*Murray return to form

*McCloskey showing up well

phog · 18-03-2023 11:22pm

Grand Slam winners 🏆🏆🏆

Farrell had this team humming.

mr_edge_to_you · 19-03-2023 7:33am

I have haven't always been a fan of how he does things and still have some concerns about how we handle central contracts but was great to see Nucifora in the box beside Farrell as the game drew to a close. He does play a major role in the success of the national team.

Former Former Former · 19-03-2023 8:38am

I think one of the most satisfying things is that we won the Grand Slam AND managed to learn a lot about the depth of our squad. Guys like Bealham, O'Toole, Baird and McCloskey made a major contribution that maybe we wouldn't have predicted two months ago.

Dubinusa · 19-03-2023 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375065#Comment_120375065

Yea. McCloskey did great! Bealham also. That was a great sight to see. How about O'Toole? He was brilliant! That's the key, building depth all through the team.

19-03-2023 2:08pm

In my opinion this six nations could not have gone any better. We may get knocked out in a RWC quarter final, we may struggle in our pool but we've left ourselves in the best possible position going into the tournament and we've picked up a grand slam along the way. An achievement to be savoured and one which every other team along with their supporters would love to be enjoying right now.

England were never going to follow up the France loss with anything other than an ultra aggressive attempt at a statement and we still comfortably beat them. We've comfortably beat every team this year with a score buffer in the championship minutes of all tests. Remarkable.

Despite this, we were pushed. I'm surprised it took until Scotland for teams to invest huge energy in slowing our start. After the Summer tour and the Autumn internationals I thought it would have been plain as day that you don't let Ireland get a fast start and yet Wales and France did just that. Scotland and England coughed up their last 20 minutes by curbing our enthusiasm in the first 20. Fine by me.

We were nervy yesterday but we were a bit nervy against Scotland too lets not forget. I don't think it was the fixtures, build up and expectations alone - I think it was the intensity with which we were met with in those early encounters that upset our rhythm. Teams got under our skin early doors, were recklessly abrasive and made life difficult but credit to the character of the squad that every time questions were asked they rolled with the punches and then ramped up the pressure when opposition began to wither against the intransigence of our defence.

Only occasionally at our out and out best, regularly under pressure but consistently the better outfit. This is where we want to be going into a World cup - tested, tried and triumphant. With all the firsts for Irish rugby the last while I'm going to wait until were looking up the driveway of the next big challenge before I move on from savouring what Irish rugby has achieved since February. This is as good as it's ever been folks, enjoy it, appreciate it and celebrate it - whatever about golden generations of players, this has been a golden age for supporters.

MattressRick · 19-03-2023 2:38pm

Sorry if this was asked already maybe yesterday, but why did the untogged players refuse medals? Henderson was first to refuse and then Ringrose followed by the rest who pretty much all made huge contributions to the Grand Slam.

They'll hardly not take medals home with them surely.

pickarooney · 19-03-2023 2:52pm

The TH position is now Bealham's, IMO and Furlong will have to come back with a bang to win it back from him. Hopefully O'Toole can make the position at Ulster his own.

19-03-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375864#Comment_120375864

As a vocal advocate of Bealham and a repeated pointer toer of his evolution into a serious quality international tighthead I will say that his best performances have not reached the level of Furlong's best performances. Furlong was acceptable whilst pretty average yesterday but at his best he is quite likely world no.1 in his position and I honestly wouldn't say that about Bealham as much as I rate the mad Viking.

I'm glad we have them both, and hope they're both fit and firing come September.

foxyladyxx · 19-03-2023 3:09pm

Strange feel in the aftermath. Disappointed that Ireland didn't play better in the first half. But, look, England were a beaten team towards the end. We won fair and square.

Steward should have got a red and the second offence was lucky not to be red carded also.

Any knock to the head has to be red. No if or buts in the interests of player safety. A professional player knows exactly what he is doing when he leads with an elbow to the face.

In the meantime I will try to savour the win as I now wait for the Under 20 match at 5pm.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-03-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375817#Comment_120375817

The 23 from the game get medals in the stadium.

The rest get medals after the fact. The extended squad weren't initially supposed to be there or announced for the trophy being picked up.

The guy giving out medals only had one left (for Sexton who as captain was last) when the members of the extended squad were called to join the team for the trophy being hoised and the wider squad pictures but they all walked by him.

19-03-2023 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375864#Comment_120375864

In the four months between the Autumn internationals and yesterday's game Furlong has only played 18 minutes of club rugby. A six day turnaround with sixty minutes of intense international rugby back to back was probably just more than his body was prepared for. It's a testament to his incredible fitness that he could even manage it.

I've been singing Bealham's praises for years but a fully fit Furlong is still ahead of him. Finlay is almost he perfect replacement but Tadhg at his best can deliver a little more across all areas of his game and has a bigger engine. Finlay also needs to cut out the one unforced error - a silly penalty or bad pass in his own half - he has in almost every game. With Tom O'Toole starting to deliver on some of his promise, it's a brilliant situation for Ireland to be in.

Neil3030 · 19-03-2023 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374330#Comment_120374330

You can add Irish tries conceded from 2022 (4) and 2023 (6), which comes to 10.

We'd still be lowest on that list....

stephen_n · 19-03-2023 4:11pm

What’s the story with Belham, he was still wearing a full brace on his leg yesterday. How long will he be out?

Dubinusa · 19-03-2023 4:17pm

Congratulations to Sexton. What a fuppin magnificent career.

pickarooney · 19-03-2023 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375977#Comment_120375977

Furlong has potentially up to 9 games to get back to his best so plenty of time to win his place back. Although if Bealham is that seriously injured...

Podge_irl · 19-03-2023 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376341#Comment_120376341

He already has his place back.

Maybe there would be a question mark if Bealham had not been injured, I think Furlong would have started this game regardless (though probably from the bench last week). Ultimately an unknowable, but Furlong is again the incumbent.

Neil3030 · 19-03-2023 6:57pm

How many scrum penalties did we concede with Furlong on the pitch yesterday, was it 3?

O'Toole really seemed to steady things when he came on.

Gap between all three of the tightheads is a lot closer than it used to be, imo.

Cosmo Kramer · 19-03-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375917#Comment_120375917

How deep do they go with medals - is it everyone that made a matchday 23 or are the wider squad credited also?

Are Sexton, Healy and Earls classed as three time Grand Slam winners because they were in the extended squad in 2009? Earls could be a one time Grand Slam winner or a three time winner depending on how it's decided.

Is Osborne counted as a winner even though he's uncapped? Just curious as to how it works. Personally I'd say anyone that made a matchday 23 should get a medal and draw the line there, but that might not be how they do it.

stephen_n · 19-03-2023 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376987#Comment_120376987

Not a like for like comparison really though, is it?

Not knocking O’Toole in any way, who has held his own at scrum time every time he has come on. He has been a real bright point in this championship.

gameoverdude · 19-03-2023 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376341#Comment_120376341

There is no winning his place back! Great to have a great couple of backups though.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-03-2023 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377149#Comment_120377149

I think its players who got onto the pitch.

I'm not certain.

Sexton and Healy are 2 times grand slam winners while Earls is a one time grand slam winner.

pickarooney · 19-03-2023 7:59pm

I'd say Farrell has shown that anyone can win or lose their place in the side. I hope and expect Furlong to up his game fairly lively but that performance yesterday was below anything Bealham has put in lately.

Henshaw on the other hand went a good way towards regaining his place in a much more competitive position. McCloskey was good but not good enough to be first choice I thought. Aki looks to be holding the shirt but for how long?

Neil3030 · 19-03-2023 8:15pm

Aki had an absolute stormer yesterday. Was my MOTM on second viewing.

Former Former Former · 19-03-2023 9:11pm

Ironically, even though we've seen a lot of great depth, I think the first choice XV is even more set in stone than it was a few months ago.

A lot of the marginal calls have crystallised, e.g. Sheehan v Kelleher, Beirne v Henderson.

I don't personally think any of the starting jerseys are up for grabs right now.

pickarooney · 19-03-2023 9:45pm

I don't think Beirne v Henderson is even a question now, it's more Henderson v Baird.

Former Former Former · 20-03-2023 7:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377651#Comment_120377651

Yeah exactly, the only open questions at the moment are on the bench.

A long way to go but if the RWC was tomorrow and everyone was fit, I don't think there's a single selection debate in the coach's mind.

(I think Henshaw is 100% the starting 12)

aloooof · 20-03-2023 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377535#Comment_120377535

I'd agree, and in terms of timing if that is to happen, the last competitive game before a RWC seems about as optimal as you could imagine. Injuries obviously the great unknown, but Farrell has shown a wilingness to put guys straight back in after injury layoffs.

MattressRick · 20-03-2023 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375917#Comment_120375917

Great thanks, that makes sense

TRC10 · 21-03-2023 12:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377310#Comment_120377310

100%

It's laughable that people were writing him off before the tournament started, saying he's finished, he shouldn't be in the squad etc. The man is a phenomenal rugby player and the epitome of a test match animal. Whenever he pulls on an Irish jersey, he delivers. He's played absolute stormers in some of Irish rugby greatest victories. He's Ireland's best 12 (yes, I think he's a better 12 than Henshaw, who is a 13).

21-03-2023 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377310#Comment_120377310

He had an excellent tournament, it's hard to even hold the Italy game against him given the late changes and the fact it was his first start in that position at test level. I'd say he's a guy the other players love having in their team.

You'd feel for McCloskey because he also played really well, was one of the most effective players in the tournament going forward and in contact, but I think there's a strong chance he doesn't make the RWC squad.

Former Former Former · 21-03-2023 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382104#Comment_120382104

He had an excellent tournament

Well, he had excellent games against Scotland and England. He had short cameos against Wales and France when the games were already over. As for the Italy game, yeah it was a difficult position for him to be in but the best you can say is that he mixed the good with the bad. So a very mixed bag of a tournament really.

TBH I think the 6N just reinforced Henshaw-Ringrose as the first choice midfield, if only the baxtards could stay fit.

aloooof · 21-03-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382104#Comment_120382104

As it stands, McCloskey is still likely to make it tho, no? They've typically gone 4 dedicated centres (and there's 2 extra spots this time), so that'd be Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki and McCloskey. He's obviously the most likely of that 4 to drop out, but I'm not sure I can see anyone overtaking him in that time.

You'd feel for him, he did very little wrong (and was excellent, especially defensively against France, one huge jackal on our 5m line).

21-03-2023 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382252#Comment_120382252

Yeah, I agree, he had a huge tournament. It's a great testament to the depth in our squad now though when high quality performers like him who've delivered now on the big stage on a good few occasions aren't even sure of a place in the squad. Great place to be.

21-03-2023 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382252#Comment_120382252

Yeah fair point, there were 4 centres last time, Aki, Farrell, Henshaw and Ringrose. I'd forgotten about Farrell.

Must love hardship · 21-03-2023 10:22am

Will be interesting to see if Aki gets picked much for Connacht over the next few months. I'm not sure if he has played for them since Xmas.

21-03-2023 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382437#Comment_120382437

Andy Friend was on Second Captains recently, didn't seem to have any huge issue with Aki, suggested it was a fitness issue, didn't make it sound like there was an impediment to him being picked from now on.

Dubinusa · 21-03-2023 12:34pm

McCloskey played very well. He's more than capable and has shown serious depth for us. He'd walk into some squads.

Yeah_Right · 21-03-2023 12:50pm

McCloskey now knows how it feels to be a Leinster loose forward. You can be a really good player, in great form and not get near the starting 23. When everyone is fit.

SqueakyKneecap · 21-03-2023 1:10pm

McCloskey didn't really put a foot wrong and did what was asked but Bundee is this omnipresence in the Irish squad both on and off the pitch. He's gonna get the benefit of the doubt over McCloskey if both are fighting for the usual Henshaw/Ringrose injuries. McCloskey has been extremely unlucky that Bundee has so much credit in the bank with this coaching ticket, even with the red cards.

leakyboots · 21-03-2023 3:54pm

Avoiding the match thread because it seems to have descended into one big long red card chat (strange given we won a grand slam, I couldn't care less about the card now).

The game itself - I found it interesting reading back the comments as-live, some people seemed to be very reactionary and a tad over-critical. I personally wasn't too worried on the day... we're not a team that overly panics, it was a little nervy and loose at times but England came to spoil and we had massive expectation.... and still scored four tries! This squad are, to borrow a phrase from another sport, 'mentality monsters' now. They're reminiscent of England 2003. That's worth some points on the board before the whistle is blown - I think no other teams wants to face us right now.

While it was a squad effort and anyone involved can be pleased with their contributions in terms of hopefully making a RWC squad/starting team, the big winners player-wise for me were Hansen**, Sheahan, Bealham, O'Toole, McCloskey, Baird. The former pair really solidified their lock on the jersey, the latter four really put their hands up. Ryan Baird based on his performance the last day, he came of age. It was a good tournament for Conor Murray also, he's not going gently into the night. A nod for Cian Healy in terms of front-row rugby nous also!

Thought Doris, POM, VdF, Keenan all played world-class level rugby throughout the tournament, James Ryan also - good to see him back in form particularly.

Mike Catt can take a bow also, along with POC and Farrell obviously but there were question marks over Catt not so long ago.

I suspect many won't agree but I still think Coombes should be looked at over Conan, and I'm still not sold on James Lowe being a lock on the 11 jersey in terms of I don't think another winger coming in weakens us unduly. It's his to lose I guess. His defence has improved mind, which was the big concern. Much like the centres, I'm happy with whatever combination. Interestingly, both our wingers were top of the 6N charts for handling errors with 9 each**. That's all well and good when you win, but lose... Still questions for me about backup at 15 and 10 also.

Anyway, those are only minor tweaks or points of view in the grand scheme of things, 'tis hard to find much fault. I back management to make the right call whether I agree or not. I think the RWC squad is largely settled now barring injury reshuffles, hard to see any bolters.

Great tournament for us, historic stuff. If you can't enjoy a day like the last day why bother following the team at all - I remember enough misery in the 90s to appreciate days like today. The u-20s winning was the cherry on top - Irish rugby is in an amazing place right now. Long may it last.

Paul Smeenus · 21-03-2023 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382958#Comment_120382958

In fairness, given he's been brilliant for Ulster for four or five years and got his first cap in 2016, I'd argue he's been in that position a lot longer that any of the Leinster backrowers you might have in mind.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 21-03-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382895#Comment_120382895

Mcloskey's biggest vulnerability would be if Farrell wants a 4th choice centre with more experience at 13.

I suspect McCloskey will be picked at Aki will get practice at 13 in a warm up game.

sprucemoose · 21-03-2023 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384161#Comment_120384161

and i think its even more complicated by the fact that the first choice 13 and the second choice, who is also the first choice 12, are both quite injury prone. maybe that brings someone like hume or frisch into the mix, JOB and Aki are decent there too but are stop gaps imo. could end up being a harsh one on mccloskey when it comes to squad selection

21-03-2023 4:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384006#Comment_120384006

Good post, with a lot of good points, but I can't agree on James Lowe. I think we saw so much of what he gives Ireland during this Championship. He's a totally different type of player to all of other wingers.

He brings a backrow level of physicality to his carries and hits when out wide; when he steps back in it takes two players to put him on the ground. His ability to get his hands free in contact is incredible and he runs great support lines. His left foot is an absolutely huge asset for us, and I don't think there is another player in Irish rugby as strong there.

He had the second highest average carry of all Irish players in this Championship (over 10m per carry, behind only JGP who had a much smaller sample size), second most metres carried for overall (nearly 200m more than Mack Hansen in 3rd), and had the most clean breaks of any Irish player with 10 (next best was 6).

Our attack is poorer without him - I think his absence was a big part of our sloppy attack in November.

We don't have any other player with his skillset, and I think the fact he played 100% of the available minutes in this Championship reflects that. Who would you have in his shirt in his place?

On Jack Conan - his performances, in two difficult situations in Murrayfield and on Saturday, more than vindicated the management team's decision to trust him.

sprucemoose · 21-03-2023 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384254#Comment_120384254

if stockdale were on form he should be able to offer all that too tbh

problem is he hasnt shown much form for a while unfortunately. shame, some player on his day. for now yeah lowe has to be in there

21-03-2023 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384372#Comment_120384372

Nah, Stockdale is a good player and a top class winger at his best, but despite his size he doesn't play with anything close to Lowe's physicality, and has never looked to get his hands on the ball as often as Lowe. He is left footed, but his kicking isn't as good either.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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