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Average Irish GP wage

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13

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    #62
    Malmedicine
    Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭Malmedicine


    maninasia wrote: »
    to the paying customers.

    Enough said I know exactly what type of person you are


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    #63
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    So if you fork over 40-50 euro you are not a customer? Eh?
    What are you then? A patient, oh, that's more polite isn't it. Or is it impolite to talk about paying money but not receiving it?


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    #64
    Xeyn
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Xeyn


    You are both a patient and a customer. But people label others according to their own hierarchy of priorities. So doctors see those that they treat as patients who sometimes happen to also be customers, not the other way round. If you see someone as a customer first then it tends to relate to your own views on priorities.


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    #65
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    maninasia wrote: »
    So if you fork over 40-50 euro you are not a customer? Eh?
    What are you then? A patient, oh, that's more polite isn't it. Or is it impolite to talk about paying money but not receiving it?

    It's a mindset, Doctors rightly or wrongly aspire to treat people not just as consumers but as people in a holistic way (not saying they always do !).
    Labelling patients as consumers while it has it merits reduced consultations to meer financial transactions for services.
    That's my opinion anyway and feel free to ridicule it or disagree......


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    #66
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Xeyn wrote: »
    You are both a patient and a customer. But people label others according to their own hierarchy of priorities. So doctors see those that they treat as patients who sometimes happen to also be customers, not the other way round. If you see someone as a customer first then it tends to relate to your own views on priorities.

    All patients are customers if the doctor is getting paid per patient. The customer mindset has limitations but it's also a powerful force in terms of opening up patient choice. How the 'medical market' is setup is integral to a good health service.


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    #67
    Xeyn
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Xeyn


    Some countries refer to patients as health care users/clients. Not all doctors receive pay per patient and certainly not all patients pay for the service they receive. Its a very different dynamic than the vendor-consumer that exists in other markets and so labels such as customers when referring to patients is unnecessary and misleading.
    If you argue purely on semantics I think there is an argument on both sides but achieves nothing.


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    #68
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    You might not like the term but in the end customers fork over the money for a service, at least some of them do anyway (sponsored by the poor taxpayer who gets to pay twice)! There's nothing inherently wrong with the term in my book anyway.


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    #69
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    maninasia wrote: »
    You might not like the term but in the end customers fork over the money for a service, at least some of them do anyway (sponsored by the poor taxpayer who gets to pay twice)! There's nothing inherently wrong with the term in my book anyway.

    The main issue with the term customer implies that doctors should try to attract well paying customers and side line or avoid those who are not "lucrative".
    Patients who have the customer mindset may demand a different(not necessarily better) level of service, but doctors who view patients as customers will try to attract those who are easy and financially rewarding and avoid those who are more difficult and not good payers....


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    #70
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I had a rather negative experience with a GP earlier this year and while that did make me feel like I was only there to make them money, before all that I never once saw myself as a customer as such. I was being provided with a service but healthcare isn't exactly a service you choose to consume.


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    #71
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    RobFowl wrote: »
    The system where one GP is on all the time simply doesn't work any more due to the increasing workload.

    My parents did 25 years on call, pretty well straight (1973-1998). It was a rural practice and the patients were fairly responsible about picking up the phone. Still, I decided not to join them.


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    #72
    kanga2000
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭kanga2000


    Hello all,

    Can anyone tell me what the starting wage for a trainee GP on the four year scheme in Ireland is? and how much one would typically earn, including overtime etc. Can't find the information anywhere.

    Thank you.


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    #73
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    kanga2000 wrote: »
    Hello all,

    Can anyone tell me what the starting wage for a trainee GP on the four year scheme in Ireland is? and how much one would typically earn, including overtime etc. Can't find the information anywhere.

    Thank you.

    Depends where you're coming from into the system. If you're a first year SHO, you'll be on €38k. Overtime depends completely on the job. Doing a psych rotation, you could be on a one in ten rota with off-site call, and make very little, or you could be a medical SHO in a peripheral hospital doing a one in five call and doing a lot of OT (although I think less now since with the new push to be working-time compliant). Also as a trainee, you are prevented from doing locum work too.


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    #74
    kanga2000
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭kanga2000


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    Depends where you're coming from into the system. If you're a first year SHO, you'll be on €38k. Overtime depends completely on the job. Doing a psych rotation, you could be on a one in ten rota with off-site call, and make very little, or you could be a medical SHO in a peripheral hospital doing a one in five call and doing a lot of OT (although I think less now since with the new push to be working-time compliant). Also as a trainee, you are prevented from doing locum work too.

    Thank you very much. Do you know if there is a list somewhere of the wage scales for GPs? I tried to look for a HSE one and I'm pretty sure this info should be publicly available but I can't find it. Anyway, the minimum for any trainee GP would be €38k yes? And it goes up over the four years?


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    #75
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    kanga2000 wrote: »
    Thank you very much. Do you know if there is a list somewhere of the wage scales for GPs? I tried to look for a HSE one and I'm pretty sure this info should be publicly available but I can't find it. Anyway, the minimum for any trainee GP would be €38k yes? And it goes up over the four years?

    You won't find wage scales for GPs, because it's not a salaried position. Income varies based on experience, work load, patient mix and practice area. And yes, the salary increases over the course, but your take home may drop in the practice years as there is no overtime.


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    #76
    his_dudeness
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭his_dudeness


    kanga2000 wrote: »
    Thank you very much. Do you know if there is a list somewhere of the wage scales for GPs? I tried to look for a HSE one and I'm pretty sure this info should be publicly available but I can't find it. Anyway, the minimum for any trainee GP would be €38k yes? And it goes up over the four years?

    Trainee GPs hold the NCHD contract, which is very publicly available, for the duration of training


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    #77
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    his_dudeness wrote: »
    Trainee GPs hold the NCHD contract, which is very publicly available, for the duration of training

    AFAIK they stay on the SHO scale for the four years not the registrar one though.
    There is an ooh allowance for GP placements in lieu of overtime but I'm not sure how much it is.


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    #78
    kanga2000
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭kanga2000


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    You won't find wage scales for GPs, because it's not a salaried position. Income varies based on experience, work load, patient mix and practice area. And yes, the salary increases over the course, but your take home may drop in the practice years as there is no overtime.

    Sorry I meant trainee GPs. I thought they have a wage scale, no, like the rest of public sector? I managed to find the HSE Payscales from 2013 (boards won't let me post the link here but you can google it easily).
    On Page 9 it gives salary for senior house officers, but I'm not sure if the columns reflect the change each year (i.e. years 1,2,3,4) of the training scheme, or what the figures after that mean.


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    #79
    kanga2000
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭kanga2000


    his_dudeness wrote: »
    Trainee GPs hold the NCHD contract, which is very publicly available, for the duration of training

    Thanks I was indeed able to find that and the salaries listed in the contract correspond to those on the HSE public payscale I found.


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    #80
    kanga2000
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭kanga2000


    RobFowl wrote: »
    AFAIK they stay on the SHO scale for the four years not the registrar one though.
    There is an ooh allowance for GP placements in lieu of overtime but I'm not sure how much it is.

    Thanks. So it looks like the first four years listed are indeed the salary for the four years of trainee GP scheme, can't tell what happens after that, there's just a load of figures.


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    #81
    Simon2015
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Simon2015


    I think its fair to say that GPs are by no means poor.


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    #82
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Simon2015 wrote: »
    I think its fare to say that GPs are by no means poor.

    Should they be?


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    #83
    Simon2015
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Simon2015


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Should they be?


    No but the way some of them go you would swear they were on the breadline.


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    #84
    _Tombstone_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Simon2015 wrote: »
    No but the way some of them go you would swear they were on the breadline.

    What would ya call it, talk it low to keep it high, all the top end professions do it. It works. Primetime had a programme on solicitors a few weeks back, same ould crack.


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    #85
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Simon2015 wrote: »
    No but the way some of them go you would swear they were on the breadline.

    Some are working for nothing at the moment due to FEMPI cuts.


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    #86
    _Tombstone_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    _Tombstone_ wrote: »
    What would ya call it, talk it low to keep it high, all the top end professions do it. It works. Primetime had a programme on solicitors a few weeks back, same ould crack.

    Its actually worth a watch tbh, recession near didn't have an impact, made up work, blocking the setting up of boards like personal injury type things that are in other countries years, overcharging.

    Had to change the channel, I would have at the beginning only the remote was to far away.


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    #87
    _Tombstone_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Some are working for nothing at the moment due to FEMPI cuts.

    What are they?


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    #88
    Aineoil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    I don't want to derail this thread, but shouldn't any person's career choice be respected without people thinking they have an easy number or are in it for the money?

    There's no easy job out there. I wouldn't be a GP for because the responsibility would be too much for me.


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    #89
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    _Tombstone_ wrote: »
    What are they?

    FEMPI cuts were the cuts to GP's on their total practice income from medical cards. they were cut by 35-40% from 2008-2014. Most GP practices have profit margins of 40-50% so those wiht near 100% medical card practices and who have high quality premises and high levels of support staff are not profitable.

    GP's are not employed once fully trained partners in the medical card system. Their ""profit" is analogous to their salary.


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    #90
    Young_gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Young_gunner


    just wondering what earnings would be these days? Average GP salary around €100k gross?



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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I’m in hospital as a patient last 10 days, I’m laughing because the consultants don’t really have much regard for GPs as they practice in Ireland atm, especially the ED Consultant, but he agreed the whole system is broken and that’s why so many end up at ED. Started losing the feelings in my legs, GP said “blood tests fine” (nothing to see here but pay another €65 if you really need to come back) Ended up with very bad fall, knocking myself out in a pool of blood, pending an MS diagnosis. Attempting to return to my GP, had I not deteriorated so rapidly, would have meant months & months of faffing around to get proper medical care. As my late mother used to say “the GP is ok so long as you can tell him exactly what’s wrong with you”.

    Rant over.



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