This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

RM Ernest · 15-03-2023 02:05PM

A few more teslas up for sale this week and some price drops as well.

Good example here

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/tesla/model-3/fpa/202303105093020?journey=Search

Reduced by 3k asking.

unkel · 15-03-2023 02:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361848#Comment_120361848

Still thousands more than I would pay for one. I'd aim for €28k or less for a boggo early Model 3. A much better built, longer range, brand new one is €44k. Why on earth would you pay €33k for a 4 year old one almost out of warranty?

slave1 · 15-03-2023 02:25PM

Same, optically they look very similar but they are vastly different cars (2019 Vs 2022+)

RM Ernest · 15-03-2023 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361897#Comment_120361897

I agree but good to see asking prices are dropping the last 6 weeks from where they were so a realisation that their cars are not worth near 40k..

So let's hope (for people like me) it keeps going!

creedp · 15-03-2023 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361982#Comment_120361982

Do you mind giving a couple of reasons spec wise why the 2022 cars are vastly better? I'm interested in picking up a 2020 M3 LR but if the more recent cars are vastly better it may be better to hold off for a couple of years, accepting of course that no matter how long one holds off, newer versions will always be better in some way.

...Ghost... · 15-03-2023 03:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362262#Comment_120362262

The main reason is the new ones are made in China and the build quality is superior.

The new ones have the power trunk and a much improved center console area which includes wireless charging.

The RWD batteries are LFP in the new cars which want to be charged to 100% as opposed to 80% with older chemistries. I am not sure the LR or P have the LFP batteries though.

I'm sure there are lots of other little things, but that's what I can think off the top of my head.

RM Ernest · 15-03-2023 03:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362295#Comment_120362295

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362262#Comment_120362262

On the refresh model the addition of a heat pump as well, centre console with 2 wireless chargers.

The LR batteries are the same chemistry and very similar capacity wise.

Bigger differences between the sr+ and rwd models in terms of original battery size and chemistry.

unkel · 15-03-2023 03:23PM

Only the RWD has the LiFePO4 batteries, which as standard have 6000 cycles. Basically these are good for many decades. Also the new cars have heat pump heating / cooling which makes them even more efficient than the older cars. Build quality (made in China) is vastly superior to the old cars (made in the USA), particularly paintwork. Old ones have 55kWh battery, new ones 60kWh, for a much higher range.

Old car is significantly faster though as it uses the bigger performance motor to drive the rear wheels. And you simply can't get as many C out of a LiFePO4 battery compared to any lithium ion chemistry

Gile_na_gile · 15-03-2023 04:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362319#Comment_120362319

The faster motor is the saving grace of the older ones, plus it is a lot lighter so it has better handling. Some of the 202 Fremont cars also have wireless charging factory-fitted. Would be good to reliability stats on the China versus Fremont cars. Sure, the anecdotal info from US buyers can induce cringe with stuff falling off.

slave1 · 16-03-2023 12:10AM

2022+ also include removal of 12v lead acid battery to lithium which should last life of the car, faster screen chip, double glazed front windows, (allegedly) better long life motor and versus early model 3s heated rear seats/steering wheel/mirrors/wipers

Gumbo · 16-03-2023 10:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364544#Comment_120364544

2020 cars have rear heated seats too.

creedp · 16-03-2023 11:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364544#Comment_120364544

The more I read the more I realise the current asking prices for pre 2022 M3s are insane. Will have to do up a list to use as bargaining material when the time comes

unkel · 16-03-2023 11:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365468#Comment_120365468

Brand new 2023 Model 3 €44k, second hand 2022 Model 3 €38k or thereabouts. A touch extra for optional extras. Very simple really. Unless you want one today, probably too late to order now anyway to get one before July 1st. And if the grant goes or is halved, that €38k is going up.

2022 €38k, 2021 €34k, 2020 €30k, 2019 €28k would be my target prices at the moment

creedp · 16-03-2023 12:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365681#Comment_120365681

Would agree that those prices are reasonable and at €30k I would certainly be very interested in a 2020 M3 SR unless I could get my hands on a LR for ballpark €33k🙏

slave1 · 16-03-2023 01:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365911#Comment_120365911

An older LR Tesla will reach equilibrium (from a range prespective) with a brand new RWD version of the same car around the 4/5 year mark (fleeting memories of reading this in the past) so a 2019 should be levelling off with a 2023 RWD in the coming year or so.

This is due to improvements in RWD battery and LR degradation

RM Ernest · 16-03-2023 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365681#Comment_120365681

@unkel what prices would you put on the LR model?

unkel · 16-03-2023 01:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366147#Comment_120366147

Not been following them at all, so wouldn't know. Sorry!

creedp · 16-03-2023 03:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366035#Comment_120366035

I suppose that's why always waiting for the next model to experience the latest tech enhancement is a recipe for never actually buying anything as you'll always want to wait for the next model to make the plunge. Im assuming a significant proportion of that gap closure is due to battery enhancements in new cars rather than significant degradation of older batteries? On that note what are people's experiences of degradation levels with the M3s? I had thought that degradation wasn't a significant factor for Tesla batteries?

unkel · 16-03-2023 04:51PM

Tesla degradation seems very low anyway, think 10% in 8-10 years are the stats (for the older gen Model S). The benefit of the LiFePO4 batteries in the later base versions of the Model 3 and Model Y is that it is far safer and lasts far longer. The latter needs to be seen in perspective. The older battery lasts maybe 500k km and 15 years, the newer maybe 1000km and 30 years. In other words, beyond when 95% of the cars are scrapped anyway and the batteries taken out and most likely used for stationary storage or going into EV conversions. LiFePO4 is heavier and takes up more space and can't be discharged or charged as quickly as other lithium chemistries used by Tesla

LasersGoPewPew · 17-03-2023 10:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365681#Comment_120365681

I'm in the market for a 21 M3 RWD or LR but I think it's a bit optimistic at present to get one at those prices unless you were working in the trade or knew someone at a garage. I'd happily pay 34k for a 21 M3 RWD. Considering what people paid for them initially they'll be reluctant to take such a huge hit in depreciation in a the next few months, I know I would.

Any theories as to why tesla are not adjusting their used inventory prices here yet?

unkel · 17-03-2023 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369009#Comment_120369009

It depends how eager the owners are to go ahead with their Model Y order. If eager enough they will sell for the prices I mentioned if you find the right candidate and negotiate hard. Of course there is a lot of hard work in this and skills required. You won't get those handed on a plate to you.

Gumbo · 18-03-2023 07:17PM

€29,000 has to be a decent price for this car.

unkel · 18-03-2023 08:00PM

Nice find. And that's asking price ONO, he's not going to refuse a £24,500 offer. That would bring it well under €28k

Gumbo · 18-03-2023 08:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374274#Comment_120374274

Agree. My €29k was of the assumption you get it for £25k but a good negotiation would start at £24k IMO. See where you end up.

mun1 · 18-03-2023 08:35PM

That’s priced to sell, offering under asking price will end up in disappointment

get in quick if you want it

Gumbo · 18-03-2023 08:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374376#Comment_120374376

It’s been for sale a year now. Gradually dropping. You’ll get it under asking alright.

unkel · 22-03-2023 12:05AM

Classic Ioniq 28kWh, €15.5k

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-ioniq/33268912

NCT 2025, but 200k km, so no warranty left whatsoever, not even on battery or drivetrain. It's by far the cheapest Ioniq for sale in a long time, I'd have no problem buying it, but I would aim for a bit less. Very decent buy for about €14k

There is nothing else for sale with similar range for similar money, not even close. Plus the Ioniq is extremely efficient and very well specced. And Korean cars are the best built cars in the world.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 22-03-2023 12:54AM

I would say there's a few 40kw Leafs for sale at "close" to that price, not sure that's a bargain

Black_Knight · 22-03-2023 11:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386039#Comment_120386039

Sold mine 2 years ago for that price. Inflation on cars has been nuts

unkel · 22-03-2023 11:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386966#Comment_120386966

Must have been a wee dip back then. Sold mine almost 3 years ago for €19500. Cheapest asking prices now for cars with typical mileage is at least €17000

This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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