General Premier League Thread 2022-23 - mod note in OP 12/03/23

IncognitoMan · 13-03-2023 12:49PM

Oh and forgot the Rashford penalty.

Keepers knee hits his foot. Foot changes direction and causes him to trip. Maybe the most difficult of the lot to catch to be fair but still professionals in the VAR room should still catch it

IncognitoMan · 13-03-2023 12:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352934#Comment_120352934

It's dangerous. Causes so many injuries but is often overlooked.

No idea how that's seen as a good and fair tackle in the same game Casemiro got sent off.

Azatadine · 13-03-2023 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352972#Comment_120352972

Ah come on now.. ..that was not a penalty and Rashford made a fool of himself with the bug huge dive.

IncognitoMan · 13-03-2023 01:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120353223#Comment_120353223

I could accept them missing that one as it was probably the most difficult one to catch.

But if VAR looks at it then it's a penalty.

The keepers knee makes contact with the player going past him.

The keepers actions trip the attacker.

If the other issues had not happened I wouldn't be that mad at that one being missed. But for it to be part of 4/5 missed or incorrect calls is very poor.

FatherTed · 13-03-2023 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352907#Comment_120352907

VAR=Video Assistant Referee. It refers to the referee who reviews the video. There is no problem with the videos but with the referee i.e. VAR

SlickRic · 13-03-2023 03:17PM

The biggest issue in the Utd game was the non penalty for handball. Utterly ludicrous decision.

The Casemiro one was unlucky, but not a disgrace of a decision at all. The problem with that one was that there were at least two tackles in the Leicester/Chelsea game that were worse and not reviewed. And who was the ref for that game? Andre Mariner. Who was VAR for the Utd game? Andre Mariner.

Absolutely no consistency whatsoever.

IncognitoMan · 13-03-2023 04:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120353493#Comment_120353493

I don't know what you are trying to say here? That VAR is the ref that looks over the videos?

I said there was no issue with the technology but with the humans behind the technology.

People will blame the technology and ask to go back to no VAR. A backwards step.

Sort out the human incompetence and VAR works imo

It is a Dunne Deal · 13-03-2023 07:57PM

Mod: post removed in line with mod note from yesterday.

doc_17 · 13-03-2023 08:18PM

The issue with the Rashford one was that it was not a clear and obvious error. If you have to look multiple times, in super slow motion from various angles, then it’s not clear and obvious. I would say the problem with the Casemiro one is consistency - ref gave a yellow and VAR called him to review it. Last year Harry Kane had a worse tackle on Andy Robertson, ref gave a yellow and VAR did t review it.

Jinglejangle69 · 14-03-2023 08:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120355176#Comment_120355176

We all know VAR and consistency don’t go together.

Try watching Arsenal some week.

OmegaGene · 14-03-2023 08:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356286#Comment_120356286

supporters of all clubs feel hard done by with var just because we feel passionate about our club, but there is no agenda by var the fa or the little green men conspiring against any club

Jinglejangle69 · 14-03-2023 08:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356303#Comment_120356303

Yep I agree 100%.

Drumpot · 14-03-2023 08:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356303#Comment_120356303

There doesn’t have to be an agenda.

Heres a simple question, a very debatable decision is given in a game. It could go either way. The decision is given that helps either Manchester United or Bournemouth, which one will get more scrutiny?

It’s just basic principle of which clubs create more headlines and the media runs with it. United get a 50-50 decision or one that looks soft, then there’s chaos about how much refs give everything to United at Old Trafford. Then when things don’t go uniteds way there’s silence.

I can tell you, the decisions that have gone against United over the last few months , if the incidents had been reversed, we’d be hearing about it in here every week. And these incidents haven’t balanced themselves out, so if it was consistent poor Reffing then we’d all know about it as the ABU brigade in here would be all over it.

Had Southampton a player sent off for the Casemerio tackle , then had a player like Garnacho injured (looks like a bad one) and then multiple peno incidents like United were denied , we’d still be hearing about it in here.

If you are reffing a United game, being called over to VaR, as they pick the worst looking angle for every incident, you know if you don’t give the decision against United, there will be far more backlash then if you do. That’s just a fact, so it does influence their decision before they’ve even viewed the footage.

breezy1985 · 14-03-2023 09:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356408#Comment_120356408

You think if a decision went against United there would be silence. Are you joking half the UK pundits are former United players.

Drumpot · 14-03-2023 09:12AM

All season long, and especially since Howard Webb came in, we’ve been told to accept when United don’t get penalties against Newcastle, Nottingham and Crystal Palace that were very clear because the bar for a VAR intervention is very high. When van Dijk studs someone and receives a yellow, we’re told to accept it because the bar for a VAR intervention is very high. When Fabinho lunges at a guy’s achilles from behind and receives a yellow, we’re told to accept it because the bar for a VAR intervention is very high. When Coady grabs a Liverpool player by the throat, we’re told to accept that no sanction is not a clear and obvious mistake because, you guessed it, the bar for a VAR intervention is very high.

A day before our game, multiple horrible tackles are made and VAR doesn’t intervene because the bar for a VAR intervention is very high (despite those tackles not even being punished with yellow cards!). An hour after our game, two very obvious fouls don’t get VAR interventions (Pope and Burn) because the bar for a VAR intervention is very high. Yet somehow in the middle of all that, you’re going to tell me that out of all those incidents, some involving literally the same referee, the worst mistake of the weekend, where VAR absolutely needed to step in to correct a clear and obvious mistake, was showing a yellow card to Casemiro for his tackle? How is this not blatant inconsistency bordering on dishoneaty from the guy sitting in the VAR room, who presumably is under the same instructions as every other referee sitting in that room?

breezy1985 · 14-03-2023 09:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356453#Comment_120356453

Well you said it yourself at the end there it "inconsistency".

Refs were inconsistent before VAR and now the same refs behind the screen are still inconsistent.

It's not a United thing.

Drumpot · 14-03-2023 09:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356467#Comment_120356467

I didn’t say it was “just a United thing”, I said we seem to suffer more then others on the wrong end of the inconsistency. Refs can be inconsistent and more inconsistent with United.

United were mugged by VAR, where is the United pundit backlash so? Oh wait, that must mean the decisions were correct ?

Nope, like I said, were roles reversed and Southampton had a man sent off (after ref had already deemed it yellow) and then denied multiple peno calls and then a bad injury to a player for a tackle that wasn’t even carded, there’d be all sorts of media coverage of it and how United always get the breaks. Instead , zero coverage.

As I’ve said, let’s see the next big incident that goes Uniteds way, watch the reaction in media and in here versus what happens when things go against us.

breezy1985 · 14-03-2023 09:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356508#Comment_120356508

"I didn’t say it was “just a United thing”, I said we seem to suffer more then others on the wrong end of the inconsistency. Refs can be inconsistent and more inconsistent with United"

That's literally saying it's a United thing.

United get more coverage than Southampton or whoever both good and bad. TV studios and newspapers are stacked with United men so your silence conspiracy just doesn't add up.

Jinglejangle69 · 14-03-2023 09:41AM

Embarrassing.

IncognitoMan · 14-03-2023 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356508#Comment_120356508

There are more people who want Utd and maybe Liverpool to lose each weekend so that's where the outrage mostly comes from in here.

Sure there's a poster in here who is crying if Utd get a throw in for them most matchdays 🤣

But you are spot on about the game on Sunday. It was a farce really.

SlickRic · 14-03-2023 11:46AM

if anyone genuinely thinks it's a United thing, you're legitimately partaking in tinfoil hat stuff.

every fan of every team wants every decision to go their way, and so they will remember the 50/50 ones that didn't, or the blatant errors, a lot more than the ones that went their way. that's just the way tribalism is.

but it's nonsense. just like the Manchester refs favouring Manchester clubs is nonsense. it's just tribal fandom stuff. it's entertaining and kinda fun to talk and argue about, but it's not a thing. there is no bias anywhere along the line in favour of anyone - certainly nothing that is in any way conscious.

the referees are simply incompetent and inconsistent. that's all.

jacool · 14-03-2023 11:47AM

I challenge anyone to go back to the Liverpool 7-0 Man Utd game and come away from that and explain why Bruno Fernandes did not sent off for pushing the linesman.

Famously Paolo Di Canio got 8 games for his push, less famously David Prutton got 10 for his, and Arda Turan got a 16 match ban for pushing an assistant referee. VAR should have told the referee to look at the incident, but didn't.

There are massive inconsistencies for every club, but people will always see that glass half-empty from their own perspective.

For absolute VAR-cical decisions just look at Chelsea-West Ham this season. In the first game West Ham score a goal but VAR says that Kepa was fouled (he wasn't) and in the return tie Soucek made a great block(!), with his arm, and got away unpunished. Two joke calls.

VAR, should be improving the game, but it isn't, but its inconsistent and failing all clubs.

breezy1985 · 14-03-2023 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357033#Comment_120357033

Oh ffs sake are we still on about him tapping the linesman.

How in a historic 7 goal win does anyone even remember that moment.

OmegaGene · 14-03-2023 01:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357274#Comment_120357274

Someone could have been killed

IncognitoMan · 14-03-2023 01:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357033#Comment_120357033

Sorry.... WHAT?

To compare Bruno to what Di Canio and Arda Turan done... WHAT?

I'll load up the clips for you here - Did the linesman even feel a push? He certainly doesn't react like someone who has.

Di Canio

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ixp5AVdC2f4?start=25

Arda

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2Duf1yPXkhA?start=25

Bruno

https://www.youtube.com/embed/bJn7czxOJwU?start=25

Now you can go the whole hard and fast you 'can't touch an official' period even if they are standing in your way line if you want. But that is a fairly insane route to go down. A bit of common sense doesn't go amiss every now and again ya know.

There's nothing in the Bruno incident at all - it is major clutching at straws to suggest otherwise.

That's a level of incompetence even VAR and English Refs can't stretch to.

EDIT -

Soucek made a great block(!), with his arm, and got away unpunished. Two joke calls.

Just on this - I actually think that might be the worst call from a Ref / VAR I've seen this season. A keeper would have been proud of that save.

Drumpot · 14-03-2023 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357456#Comment_120357456

They literally pick the worst looking angle of incidents and give the ref only seconds to decide. Look at what the match refs saw for both Casemiro's reds. We saw what the refs saw which looked awful. Any incident can be made look worse in slow motion or at a certain view. If they really want refs to be able to make impartial judgements they should get to see these game changing moments properly, not just the angle that looks the worst.

Neither ref thought they were red in game until VAR intervened. The rules are supposed to be about clear and obvious errors, as others have pointed out, there's been plenty of "clear and obvious errors" that VAR has chosen to ignore and yet the United man is missing 7 league games thanks to VARs meticulous investigation of two incidents he was involved in. Many would argue that they were reds, but many equally argue increasing them from yellow to red hasn't been something VAR has gotten involved in. So why the microscope on Cas ?

jacool · 14-03-2023 02:24PM

The rules are there to be enforced.

In the days where the treatment of referees is becoming a larger issue in football, the chief executive of Ref Support UK, had said that he felt Fernandes deserved "at least a five-game ban". We are currently in the middle of having a mini-referee crisis in Cork, based on an issue in one of the suburbs, and it has resulted in a weekend of games where no referees turned up to officiate, so the entire fixture list there was cancelled. This is tied into respect for the match officials, which has to be managed by the rules, and enforcement of same. Once you start softening the rules, or making them open to interpretation, you risk opening a Pandora's box for the prima donnas, to abuse as much as they can. Next thing there will be a more aggressive contact with an official and it will be measured against Bruno's contact.

The current rules state that to get in contact with a match official is a serious offence and should be treated as such. Instead we will have people saying "Well, Fernandes got away with it, so should our player."

Defend Bruno if you wish, but again this is across all clubs. For one weekend only, referees started booking the third players to start haranguing them, especially if they came from a good distance away to get involved. There is no respect currently and leaving things like this go means it ain't getting fixed soon.

14-03-2023 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357033#Comment_120357033

Challenge accepted. Because it was a non incident that neither party (2 grown men) gave any thought to and only whiny people on the internet picked up on because for some reason they can't be happy with their own team winning, they need more points to the point they'll bring it up weeks later.

Comparing to Di Canio is honestly one of the most ridiculous things that could be said and honestly undermines your whole point.

Edit: but I also see above he's now responsible for exacerbating a referee "crisis" in Cork 😂

IncognitoMan · 14-03-2023 03:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357781#Comment_120357781

We'll stick to the Bruno incident...

The ref grabs Brunos arm as he is getting involved with another player, so that is the initial contact (nothing in it either by the way). This gets separated. The ref then steps across Bruno as he is walking forward and Bruno touches his back. No clear use of force etc.. and moves past him. End of incident.

It's not defending Bruno - it is actually asking what in the hell would he be getting a ban for. Honestly what for?

Again - I would ask for a bit of common sense. These are 2 grown men and neither seemed to be effected by the contact, nothing violent either way.

It's a non-event.

djan · 14-03-2023 03:25PM

I fail to understand how you still see it as a touch on the back given how the refs body reacts. It's clearly a shove which is not a normal way of passing someone.

General Premier League Thread 2022-23 - mod note in OP 12/03/23

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