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Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,514 ✭✭✭JMcL


    NCT as it's being "operated" at the moment is a joke. If you try to book the car way ahead of time to make sure you get in in time you're told that it'll only be valid from 1/2 years from the date of test regardless. Try to book it a reasonable time ahead of due date - the closest date is 3 or 4 months beyond and it'll still be due for next test 1/2 years after the due date. While I'm entirely in favour of cars being roadworthy and have no desire to go back to the 80s/90s when often as not cars were being held together by baler twine, I'd hope given the farcical state of affairs that exists, guards would exercise some judgement until NCTS get their act together.

    Insurance and tax on the other hand, a system of notification when a car falls out of insurance or tax linked to ANPR would help reduce that rather than have guards standing in the middle of the road looking at windscreens - though of course the banditery that is the insurance cartel in this country needs sorted out as well.

    (seriously, I haven't been off lurking in the motoring board - swear 😄)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I love the fact that they have a rough minimum on the number of uninsured and untaxed cars due to ANPR cameras on the motorway but they can't do anything with this info apparently. It's a joke. Even if you only had a team of 4 gardai seperately take each reg and their address in a certain area for a month. Do drive bys to see are the cars there (or in urban areas) parked on the road, and just either sieze them or wait outside (knowing their typical times from the motorway cameras) and hammer them when they drive out the gate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,180 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was talking with my wife yesterday about how many cars there still are on the road where you can't read the rear reg plate due to dirt. obviously not something people have any fear about being pulled over for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,621 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    That's a fairly reasonable approach for the NCT. If they were to give you 1 or 2 years from the date of the test, they would be incentivising and encouraging people to drive without an NCT for months or years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    NCT changed completely the type of cars that are on our roads. They are cnuts but I'll give them that.

    Suspension springs typical just fail by cracking with any wear prior to that difficult to spot.

    Most other components show obvious wear be they bushings, brakes, shock absorbers etc.

    How did you know to bring car to garage or was it just a regular service?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,621 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'd guess we're both old enough to remember the kinds of wrecks that were in common use on the roads before the NCT. It's far from perfect, but it serves a purpose.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    100%, the NCT is a long way from perfect but before it, my god, there was some awful yokes on the road



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I think people overplay the extent to which the NCT is responsible for people driving newer cars now. Personally, I'd guess a lot of it has to do with vastly changed socio economic conditions rather than the idea that were it not for the NCT, people would be happy to drive around in rust buckets held together with baling twine and struggling to get up to 80kmph/ over a hill without the engine blowing.

    I do think the NCT has a role in monitoring emissions - my first car was 14 years old, otherwise running fine, but kept failing on the emissions test. A pain in the hoop for me as I ended up just scrapping it and buying a new car, but probably a win for society.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    My recollection from back when the NCT first came out was that the car itself was responsible for very few crashes (only a few percent) as it was usually driver error so the safety aspect doesn't necessarily stand up. However, I think one big change was that people pre-NCT were happy just getting a basic oil service and not having to pay much to maintain their car. The NCT has meant that people now need to ensure that the car is maintained to a minimum standard.

    However, yes, in that same time, we've seen people's spending capacity increase so people have been able to get newer cars. We've also seen our road surfaces improve tremendously in that timeframe which has reduced the percentage of failures down as a result of worn suspension components.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,651 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Dirt is one thing, could be laziness. The number with non-reflective plates/ those greyed out yolks, and non compliant plates is quite the other!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    True again. And the Gardai don't seem to give a f**k. In fact I was on the N11 near Ashford the other week doing 100kmph on cruise control and a car passed me doing about 110kmph with a marked Garda car more or less tailgating him. No blue lights etc. The car pulled in in front of me and the Garda car just ploughed on. They seem to have completely given up even pretending to care about enforcing the law when it comes to motoring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    110 indicated on a car is usually only around 100 anyway based on my experience over a few different cars, you see it if you have a GPS running or even with Google maps open.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Possibly true, I don't know, but I don't think we should all be the judges of our own speeds. There's a limit. There are road signs. And we have pretty much uniform speedometers in all our cars. We have the perfect, in-built ability to make all of our speeds on the roads more or less uniform. People making up their own speed limits as they feel like it is what causes half of the chaos on our roads - even just the whole speed up > brake > change lane > speed up > change lane again > brake > speed up is a big part of the problem with tailbacks.

    Anyway, the point was more the mindset of the Garda that day - aware that he and the car were doing 110 according to their speedo, but decided that was fine. And it's not an infrequent occurrence either. It - and the whole 'sure my speedo is wrong' mindset - just encourages a sense of everyone for themselves once behind the wheel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Point though is that the car likely wasn't speeding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Sure no wonder the roads are a nightmare to drive on. F**k all speed enforcement and we can all be the judges of what speed we reckon we're going at. It's wild west farcical. No wonder you get lads sitting on your rear bumper if the attitude is "well, the speed limit is 100, which means I can do 110 on my speedo, and they'll always allow you a few kmph over the limit before actually ticketing you, so I'll stick it to 114kmph... and there's a car in front of me I need to pass, I'm allowed to speed up to overtake so 117kmph is fine."

    I get your point, but my point was not about scientific proof of speed, it was about attitudes to driving and specifically enforcement. 100 is a limit, not a target. Here you have a Garda who thinks its fine to overrule your vehicles speedo indicator and a motorist with such scant regard for speeding that even when a Garda is sitting behind him he just carries on. It all just means that you have people in one lane doing 90kmph on their speedo because they couldn't be bothered dealing with the arseholes in the other lane who hammer away at 110 on theirs.

    And we wonder why there are so many speed-related deaths on our roads?

    Anyway, as I say, I get your point and I'm not looking for an argument so I'll stop derailing the thread with my rants!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Speed limits are absolute, they're not defined by an individuals speedometer in their car which can vary for all sorts of reasons such as wheel and tyre size.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    It is certainly law in the UK that speedometers can't underreport speed, but they can over report(10% plus 10km/h I think).

    Typically in the last few cars I've had when compared against a GPS device, 127km/h on speedometer is about 120km/h on GPS.

    A Garda with a speed gun recording a motorist at 125km/h (on my car showing circa 132km/h) is unlikely to pull the driver over; he will have a margin of error on his own device and that's before you get into calibration controls etc etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭cletus


    As said, cars over estimate speed, often by 8-10kph.

    Most likely you were doing 90 or a little more, and the guy who passed you was doing 100 or a 102.

    Gardas won't pull for a few km over, it's too easy to argue about accuracy of the equipment etc.


    *Edit* large bottle small glass in there ahead of me



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    As @Large bottle small glass says, it is that legally the calibration of speedometers are allowed to be report up to 10% over but not anything under. For this reasons in the past, cars always were made to be lower, and that driving instructors used to tell you to drive at 10% higher than your speedo to make sure you were going fast enough ( a different time). Newer cars tend to be closer to the correct speed in my experience

    More interesting, the gardai will be far more lenient ant give you the 10% leniency in most scenarios (from a garda, not written down anywhere) but the Go vans give no leniency. Those people who are going the 10% over will eventually get caught if we had better enforcement as its too fine a line for them to be on the right side of the line 100% of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,172 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I imagine with the Gardaí pulling people, it's largely an opportunity cost issue where if they're spending time pulling people over for going say 105km/hr then they're going to have to let a few people doing crazy speeds pass by. Whereas the camera vans don't have that issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,514 ✭✭✭JMcL


    I've no problem with the approach per se, and 100% agree with you that it would be gamed. It's the execution or lack of that pisses me off. Assuming somebody with 2 brain cells to rub together put together the service level agreement - not a given with the Irish governments track record in this type of thing - there isn't a hope in hell that NCTS are even ball park with this charade.

    In between my message 2 days ago and now they've sent me an NCT notice for our second car due an NCT in 3 weeks time. I click on the link to make an appointment. End of September! The only thing they can offer me elsewhere is Cahir in August - a 130km round trip. Now they know when NCTs are due, I'd hope they know the length of their queues, why don't they allocate a space and offer that in time instead of pointlessly sending out an "oh by the way, your NCT is due in 3 weeks" notice.

    Anyway, rant off and back to 2 wheels!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey



    It article pay walled which can be read in full here. https://archive.is/6PVmm

    A fairly long rambling incoherent piece I thought - didn't really engage with the question. Just got a load of soundbites to tick the usual boxes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭cletus


    Yeah, not a great article, and poorly edited.

    I don't know if it's possible to actually engage with the question other than to say 'it depends", though.

    Much as I like cycling (I keep a bicycle in my classroom so I can cycle to the shops at lunchtime instead of driving in) we have two cars in our home, and the reality is that they're both necessary.

    Regarding public transport, I often think that there should be two discussions running, PT for commuting to and from work, and PT for 'leisure' travel, for want of a better word.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,180 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I think we had a lot of that with the debate over 'unnecessary' travel in the last week.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I really disliked that phrase, it was misleading and was used by the greens to be misleading, which is odd given their remit. Those journeys are not unnecessary, it was just that for a small number of bus/train trips, if it were free, there would be some people who would hop on the bus or DART for one stop rather than walking it. I got a flat on the train before and I was tired so when I hopped off in Dun Laoghaire, instead of cycling to work, I waited and got the next DART so I was within walking distance. by their definition "unnecessary" but it was necessary, I just had more than one option. Interestingly, being free had nothing to do with it and if PT was made free, I would still cycle from Dun Laoghaire rather than get the DART closer. I actually think they overestimate how lazy some people are. In the majority of cases, even if free, if you pull up to a bus stop and there are 60 people waiting and your destination is only a 10 minute walk, you will probably walk because between arrival, loading, unloading, chance of not getting on, it isn't worth it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,180 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it was a response to a parliamentary question, so probably drawn up by some staffer rather than used off the cuff himself. but yeah, if they'd used the term 'discretionary journeys' it'd have been much less of an issue, despite having the same meaning.

    i suspect it was being used in a dry academic sense (necessary journeys are one you'd take anyway, unnecessary ones are ones you'd take on top because of FFT).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭cletus


    We didn't have it properly though (do we ever in this country).

    My commute is not possible without a car. It's that simple. Even though my wife takes the train to Dublin for work, getting to the train station without her car isn't feasible.

    Outside that, though, we'll make journeys using bicycle, train, Luas, and less recently bus and Dart.

    So while I'll make use of PT as much as I can, talk of living without a car can seem like a very urban-centric idea to people living either rurally, or in places ill served by public transport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    One of the cars in our house was due the NCT in February. Next appointment anywhere in Dublin when checking in January was August.

    A quick phone call and the fairly pleasant agent said they'll organise something sooner and if I had a preference for a location and time, within a few days I received a text with the appointment details with the date being before my current one even expired and the location in the nearest cente to me.

    Seems to be common enough at the moment.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,180 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was even once told on the phone that it might be worth shacking up unannounced and asking to be let in if they had a gap.

    i had great fun with the NCT last year; 10 year old car, no reliability issues until literally the point the mechanic hopped into it and turned the engine to bring it in for the test, and it wouldn't start. turns out the immobiliser had glitched, but by the time i'd copped my test had been cancelled.

    got that sorted, two months later was due to go back for the test, and less than 24 hours before the test the car entered limp home mode. very quick swap of plugs, leads and coil pack and she got through.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    But that's not the way he used it, he stated it in a sense that they were completely unnecessary as in you wouldn't take them if the option wasn't there. In truth, they were necessary but the fact they went to PT was unnecessary. He should have stated that they were necessary, there was just a small chance on a **** day, if the PT wasn't full, you might have jumped on the bus for a stop if it wasn't overcrowded or if you got a flat tire and it was off peak, you might just hop on the DART rather than change the tube in the pissings of rain. It was lazy in my opinion.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think free PT is necessary but am all in favour of it being subsidised to make it more attractive than car journeys in urban areas or where a PT alternative is realistic.



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