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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah thats what i thought,its not there yet

    I am sure we will know once they arrive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    They can fly them now, sure, but can they do what they want to be able to do? No.

    I am just passing on what I have read the Ukrainians say themselves as to why they want more modern western aircraft. The first is the AA radars, targeting and tracking are vastly more advanced and sophisticated, meaning they get a large edge on the SU-34 and their ilk, so when it comes to providing air cover, they can do a better job with a greater chance of survival. At the moment they are seriously outclassed with 1980's era SU-27s up against a couple decades younger SU-32s and 35s. The other feature is the hugely superior ground attack and target designation systems which would hugely improve their ground attack and fire suppression capabilities.

    The big killer feature is they can carry and deploy a very wide range of sophisticated western munitions and exploit those to their full capabilities. You can't retrofit all of the capabilities and firing/targeting requirements of these munitions to Mig-29s. They have managed to cobble together a basic way to get HARM and JDAMs to work, but they can't be used to their full capabilities because the systems in the cockpit and electronics bay simply aren't there.

    I shall see if I can find an explanation the UAF representative gave on a Telegram channel, that I read. The way he put it made it out to be a clear chalk and cheese difference.

    Here's the thing. I have said multiple times that people in the west should stop telling Ukraine what it bloody needs - condescending or what? They are not stupid; they have just as many aviation mil nerds and geeks as we do and their pilots have been training with US pilots for nearly 30 years.

    In 2018 the US and UA held a joint exercise called Clear Sky. Over 40 aircraft and all their support crew took part - in Ukraine. This is well worth a look and might give a sense as to the Ie Ukrainians know what western aircraft, systems and weapons can do:

    Clear Sky 2018 a.jpg Untitled Image

    A Ukrainian pilot being shown an F-15C

    At the start of this war, the youngest of Ukraine's jets was built in 1991.

    It's as if I were to write out your families shopping list for the week and you had to cook and eat what I chose for you.

    The Ukrainians know that it will take 3 months to get operational at a basic level and 6 months to become really proficient, but it's still what they want and are asking for. You, me, Gen Miley, Stoltenberg - no one in the West knows better than the Ukrainians what they need. They are the worlds greatest experts on combat operations against Orc forces. Even US pilots have said they know more than them when it comes to flying against Orc fighter jets.

    So saying more of the same - Mig-29s - is the best thing for Ukraine, is simply wrong. A Polish Mig-29 is not somehow magically better against an SU-35.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,669 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Jesus, you're not even going to try to hide your affiliation are you?

    "Absorbed into Russia" "100% part of Russia". Are you being paid in Crypto, or in Rubles so you can head down to the corner shop afterwards to get your daily ration of "Victory Gin"?

    You remember last year at the same country the Russians where caught red handed trying to erase a nation and systematiclly rape & murder civilians in the process? I remember.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nothing in that say's they have actually recruited and deployed afghans to Ukraine or elsewhere



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,688 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    No they weren't. This is just lies and Russian propaganda and now we have more.

    Russia sent its own troops through Chernobyl radioactive zone unprotected, exposing them to dangerous levels. I guess they didn't "stop and think" for a minute? Well?

    Russia were the one caught with military assets inside the power plant and shelling the supporting infrastructure connected to the plant, to TRY to disconnect it from the grid. We have seen how little Russia values the lives of its own soldiers, cannon fodder, or ethnic Russians in Ukraine which it sees as political pawns and nothing more. Vastly more of those ethnic Russians have died during Russia's "protection" of them than ever died during all the years of the supposed terrible oppression of them by Ukraine. That's Russian protection for you.

    Russia launched attacks against Ukraine's energy grid in the last 24 hours. Yes?

    How do you expect Ukraine to keep power electric flowing to the plant when Russia launches attacks on Ukraine's grid?

    At least nine people have been killed and power at Europe's largest nuclear plant has been lost after Russia launched missiles across Ukraine.

    Russia-installed officials in the Moscow-controlled part of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia region said the halt in electricity supplies to the power station from Ukrainian-held territory was "a provocation". Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said it was "a difficult night", after Russia resumed its "wretched tactics". He said energy systems were being restored and all services were working after the "massive" rocket attack struck critical infrastructure and residential buildings.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    IMG_20230309_145733_248.jpg

    A group of wealthy definitely not government Ukrainian strangers evaded the military scrutiny of NATO controlled Baltic (in a large naval exercise no less) and destroyed the Nordstream pipelines. Also Russia shells nuclear reactors in it's annexed territory as well constantly shelling Doneskt city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,688 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You don't seem to understand the implications of shelling the grid and infrastructure that supports the plant versus the plant directly.

    Explains why you seem to fall for their propaganda so readily.

    Russia has already demonstrated its utter disregard for civilian life in Ukraine, whether they are nominally pro-Russian or not.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    It does Mach 10-12.

    To compare, the AIM-54 Phoenix missiles that the U.S. military has retired were also capable of reaching speeds of Mach 4.3. With a much larger solid fuel rocket motor, it is hardly surprising that Kinzhal can travel to Mach 10

    The US modified the AIM-54 to intercept satellities in low orbit and it's speed was increased to greater than Mach 5. The kinzahal is more than double the length of an AIM-54 and its warhead payload is greter than the entire weight of the AIM-54.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You are another expert who knows more about what Ukraine needs than Ukrainiane's top military. I was just relaying what the Ukraians have said, so your smart derision of me is a derision of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭macraignil


    I think the continued strikes on Ukrainian civilians from deep inside russia and the Black sea must give the green light for improving the long range strike capabilities for Ukraine. NATO needs to let russia know it will no longer restrain itself from providing the longer ranged attack systems when these types of terrorist actions continue. Saw a report from the early hours of the morning on reddit saying the russian aircraft were airborne and an attack imminent. Fighter aircraft with long range antiaircraft missiles and long range missiles to hit russian military bases from where these attacks are being launched should now be a priority for Ukraine. Russians hitting the electric grid of Ukraine when it could start a nuclear meltdown in Europe's largest nuclear power plant is enough of a reason for this to happen now.

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    All of the MiGs undergoing modernization are said to receive the new avionics by the end of next year.

    The scope of modernization includes changing the analog avionics to digital ones, including new mission planning computer and data bus, to which additional devices may be connected.

    Furthermore, the mechanical gyro is replaced with a laser system. Digital map and MFD (Multi-Function Display) are features of the programme.

    https://theaviationist.com/2013/03/18/polish-fulcrums/

    I see no mention of any radar improvements, would you have a link for that?

    This site suggests the Polish Mig-29s still have the 1980's era Phazotron N019 Rubin Radar radars: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/mig-29-pl.htm

    The modifications that have been made to the Polish Mig-29s mean that Ukrainian pilots would have a several months retraining requirement so the supposed jump in and fly advantage doesn't exist, making far more capable western fighters still the better choice because the capabilities at the end of the training period would be far greater.

    As noted by a leading Polish defense expert Juliusz Sabak (Defence24), in Polish MiG-29s “altitude is displayed in feet, distance in miles and speed in knots. Russian standards, used also in Ukrainian aviation, are meters, kilometers and kilometers per hour.

    When it comes to training, even pilots flying the Ukrainian MiG-29 would need no less than a few months to get used to NATO’s MiGs.

    Moreover, it would be necessary not only to train pilots, but also to replace on-board equipment, including with new communication and IFF (Identification Friend-or-Foe) systems, which would have to compatible with Ukrainian standards.

    Probably the first aircraft and crews could be ready not be ready earlier than in 2-3 months.

    https://defense.info/global-dynamics/2022/03/a-polish-perspective-on-the-mig-29-issue/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Again the Baltics continue to impress. As promised Latvia are now taking seized cars from drunk drivers and sending them to Ukraine (to be used by Ukr military and hospitals)




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,799 ✭✭✭threeball


    2 massive ships of weapons were delivered from Iran, including 100million rounds of ammo, plus missiles and drones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,799 ✭✭✭threeball


    Fcukin state of him. Like some Def Leppard cover band reject



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭ZX7R




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Funny how the Russian apologists use terms like "NATO will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian" whenever the West give Ukraine weapons or ammo to defend themselves from the illegal invaders.

    Yet you never hear them say "Iran will fight Ukraine to the last Russian" when shipments like this happen 🤷‍♂️



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    More than likely they will be transferred as they are,

    The Russians used to service Nato mig29 for a few years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa



    How are we supposed to take your claims or analysis seriously when you've come out with absolute clangers like this:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Earlier this morning Russia’s Defense Minister Shoigu made a statement about todays Large-Scale Missile Attack against Ukraine, “In response to Terrorist Attacks in the Bryansk region, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation delivered a Massive Retaliation Strike.”

    So Bryansk was the excuse but it took them a week to reply with missles targeting civilian infrastructure and ignoring the Ukrainian military again .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Nice action by loitering drones in Ukr (guessing the Switchblade 600's?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Belarus again,how many times have we heard claims of false flags being prepared so they can enter the war .





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    So having to remove the upgrades makes them pointless, given how long that will take. Not to mention them being just more of the same and not better.

    Anyway, as I said, I'm basically just relaying what Ukrainians themselves have said and I have managed to find what I previously read, so since I am not to be believed, then perhaps the spokesman of the Ukrainian Airforcce can persuade people:

    01.03.23

    The representative of the command of the Air Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Yuri Ignat Yuri Ignat notes that technology plays an important role in the war. That is why Ukraine really needs F-16 fighters.

    He said this on the air of the national telethon "Unified News".

    Ignat notes that the F-16 has passed the stages of deep modernization, and therefore can withstand the enemy in the air at the level and deliver high-precision long-range strikes. Unfortunately, Soviet equipment cannot do this, but Ukrainian pilots "squeeze everything possible."

    "Our MiG-29 against the Russian Su-30 aircraft is the same that we will sit in a trench with one Makarov pistol, and they with three machine guns or machine guns. Theoretically, we will try to resist them, but it is clear that the number of weapons, and most importantly - technology play a decisive role, so we need F-16 aircraft that can really play an advantage in the air and allow us to quickly de-occupy our territories, "the representative of the Air Force said.

    According to him, the F-16 aircraft is universal and multi-purpose, and therefore can be part of air defense. In addition, the fighter can deliver missile and bomb strikes at a great distance.

    "An aircraft where there is no air defense and anti-aircraft weapons can block those areas and destroy air targets. This practice is used all over the world. In particular, this aircraft has a wide range of weapons of everything that NATO countries use. It can be the carrier of such missiles as "Harpoon", which are designed to destroy surface targets. Therefore, order can be quickly restored in our sea," said Yuri Ignat.

    Transfer of the F-16 to Ukraine

    On February 24, US President Joe Biden ruled out the possibility of transferring American F-16 fighters to Ukraine, saying that they were "not needed now."

    Democratic Congressman Adam Smith notes that the transfer of F-16 fighters to Ukraine would be a "stupid use of resources." After all, in the best case, the United States would be able to deliver only a few such aircraft within a year.

    In turn, the chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the US House of Representatives, Michael McCaul, says that the F-16 may appear in Ukraine at a "decisive and turning point" of the war.

    Meanwhile, CNN, citing its own sources, reported that the United States will not block the supply of F-16 fighters to Ukraine by allied countries, if they make such a decision. Washington is allegedly not against this from international partners.

    While he and Ukraine go on about the F-16, I think that is because they are aiming low in the hope they might stand a better chance of at least getting something. I am confident that if they were offered F-18s or F-15Cs, they would prefer those.

    The same person in another article described the problems the F-16 would pose, namely their rough, Foreign Object Damage prone airfilds and delicate landing gear. The undercarriage of the F-16 is too delicate for Ukrainian airfields. To use them they would need to surface at least one airfield with smooth bitumen. If they got F-18's or Grippens, they wouldn't need to undertake this huge task and they could use all their airfields, not just the upgraded one, which would probably become a prime target.

    Given The US wouldn't object to F-16s being transfered, there's a good chance the same would apply if Australia were to ask to transfer it's 40-45 surplus F-18s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 James Heappey


    Projection THE post, step away from the BBC and Sky News.

    In Odessa the horrors of mobilization continue … Bakhmut needs more soldiers for 4 hours .,.

    twitter. com/mylordbebo/status/1633599636119199748

    To remain ignorant when all the facts are available is sinful and yet board is willfully ignorant, speaks volumes for the moral compass of posters here that are pro Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa



    Bakhmut needs more soldiers for 4 hours

    That's efficient!



This discussion has been closed.
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