Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I know what you mean, but it is all so pointless and wasteful, "progress" becomes just the wrong term to use.

So if Bakhmut (or other towns they are attacking) fall they take another piece of Ukraine by burning through "expendible" soldiers (this can't go on forever), making the whole area into a desert (which they will get no benefit from) and driving almost all people that were living there out as well.

Russia has a declining population which is being further reduced by this war. That will get worse if Putin has to move Russia even further into war economy mode and there is press ganging of men aged 18-40 or so to keep the war in Ukraine going at current tempo.

Biggest country on Earth that (IMO) already cannot exploit all the territory and resources it had (before Putin started land grabbing in Ukraine) because of too few people/brain drain/population decline.

The whole thing is utterly brain dead.

As for Ukraine becoming a failed state under the strains this war is imposing on society I hope the US/European/other countries aiding it will provide enough support to prevent that outcome.

If they had had more aircraft and attack helicopters, the attackers might have been easily suppressed and that might not have happened. Reminds me of that other great tragedy, the medical workers who died in the steel works in Mariupol.

One of them was Olena Kushnir, the last doctor treating the wounded of the Azov battalion and civillians in the Azovstal steel works. Her husband, also in the military, was kiiled earlier. She managed to have her 7 year old son evacuated while she stayed to do her job and was killed in one of the attacks on the plant.

https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/17/13243_military_medic_olena_kushnir_killed.html

From your post:- Quote:

There are about 75000 Ukrainian refugees in Ireland.

A poll taken in 2011 showed 49% of Ukrainians had relatives in Russia (that's 36,000 at a minimum)

I am sure when their relatives are forcibly conscripted against their will, trucked to the front lines and killed, the majority of refugees in Ireland will certainly not be rejoicing in the death of their family members.

It seems the majority of boards members will though. UnQuote.

This last line is where we disagree, and from it all my posts stem. I've clearly stated my opinion on the war, opinions that I've held since the beginning of this thread, but I don't believe that every poster on here is a blood thirsty maniac, calling for the death of every Russian.

Yes I do, otherwise they wouldn't be asking for them. It would only take between 3-6 months to train their already, highly skilled pilots. As someone else suggested, their reservists could then be put in the SU-27s and Mig 29s. Ukraine likely has a few hundred pilots and I think around 200 planes, though that is a bit rubbery due to being highly classified.

They have a lot more than I think most people imagine.

All of Ukraine's top military people, From Zelenskyy on down, have been practically screaming for western fighter jets for more than 8 months. They aren't a bunch of Walter Mitty's stupidly flying kites of impracticality. They know what their resources and capabilities are and they are fighting for their very existence, they aren't going to waste their time asking for stuff that would drain their resources and actually be a hindrance. The west should give them the credit they truly deserve.

What was or wasn't said is vague other than to do with East Germany and irrelevent really -> it was superseded by the signed NATO-Russia Founding Act in 1996 which implicitly accepts the right of countries to join NATO and lays out ground rules for what installations \ weapons systems can be permanently deployed therein.

Just a little something for folks who might think the "fall of Bakhmut" would be a loss for Ukraine and/or a victory for Russia.

while I agree with the sentiments... sitting in the grey favours Russia... so unfortunately, even though people like to make out theirs 3 choices, when it comes down to it, it's a binary choice...

Anyone thinking he's exaggerating his own skills and capabilities, is wrong.

Who is this idiot 'he' who is suggesting it would take 3 months instead of the years that Rishi Sunak claimed? He was until very recently a Republican rep. who sponsored a bill to train Ukrainian pilots. He's Adam Kinzinger, currently a Lt Col in the USAF Wisconsin Air National Guard. He's been a military pilot for years who also served in the Air Force Special Operations Command, Air Combat Command, and Air Mobility Command.

Oh but he's just one experienced pilot, the Whitehouse said different, or some other politician or mouthpiece trying to shut down discussion on the topic quoted the longest time the military would actually stand by as possibly being correct.

No he isn't. The US Air National Guard have been training with and doing joint exercises with the Ukrainian Air Force since the 1990's. 29 years of joint operations and experience.

An F-16 instructor has said training could be as short as 69 days.

I actually don't think the F-16 is the plane the west should be looking at to supply to Ukraine. Barring F-15 strike eagles, I think Australia's 46 surplus f-18s are the ideal aircraft:

This Youtube discussion about what western fighters would be most suitable for Ukraine mentions the F-18 as being more suitable than F-16s.

I think the A-10 would also be perfect if they had air-cover from F-18's which have good radars.

The most critical issue in this topic is the training of the pilots. It needs to be done now and it should have been begun 6 months ago if for no other reason than as a contingency.

If it's only a few people, then they're not dominating the tone of the conversation and therefore shouldn't be fixated upon to any great degree.

There is the flip side to online discussion which is that in the apparent pursuit of balance, you'll have those popping up to question what should be/have been accepted facts, i.e. is the earth really round? Regarding this discussion, I've no time for those trying to add nuance to the issue of Russia invading Ukraine and being apparently prepared to lay waste to the whole country if need be. If Russian soldiers are coming to Ukraine to take territory and kill anyone who gets in their way, it shouldn't be at all surprising when many of them may meet their end in that pursuit. That kind of carry-on can make the locals angry, apparently. If Russia leaves Ukraine tomorrow, no more of their sons have to die and Russia still is a huge big country with plenty of territory for its own benefit and advancement.

Might be the best news I have seen all week. Hooray; better late than never.

That loud sobbing sound you hear is Zelenskyy and Reznikov as they view this video of the US equipment in Poland awaiting shipment back to the US.

FFS!

That is not showing US equipment for Ukraine arriving, it's their equipment about to be shipped back to the US.

The units have been on deployment in Europe for a while and are being rotated back.