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LGFA welcome Transgender players.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,293 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    If you take the objection to trans women in female sports out of it (which is a separate issue to the rest of the trans debate really) what's left?

    EDIT

    She seems to have gone full blown TERF in the last 10 days, I wonder what could have happened


    Post edited by Quantum Erasure on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Have you a link to any of it?

    Given size of the organisation I doubt they have commissioned their own research, so what are they basing this decision on?

    I've posted studies which state the original IOC 10nm/L was not on basis of any solid science, and also that 12 months on that level of testosterone still leaves a biological male with huge benefits over equal size female.

    So what are you basing your backing for this decision on; faith in the LGFA committee?

    The level they propose is double what the IAAF allow for a non contact sport.

    Where does the confidence come to allow double the IAAF limit in a physical contact sport?

    I know the Gender activists are happy with non science based care for the children (as per the independent report into the Tavistock) they supposedly represent so is this more of the same? This time it's a committee making decisions contrary to the group they act for.

    What's common is an anti science ideology making anti science decisions.

    In a parallel universe Enoch Burke would fit right in, same disregard for science and rational thought, just a different faith based ideology.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,579 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    No, I don't have a link to it, but I guess you could ask an LGFA member to work through their organisation to get more details, if you're so motivated about.

    It's strange to see how people are now intensely interested in all the medical details on this one very, very niche issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,293 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    so, when you said "Apart from the facts and the science, yes, it's all I have." what did you mean, exactly?

    I wouldn't say people are intensely interested in this one niche issue, its more a case of the emperor's new clothes, the facts are plain as day and yet some people claim to have facts and science to prove different



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    The members don't know either, just whatever 80 people were in the room when they made the decision.

    So what is your basis for accepting a testosterone level of twice an international federation level in a non contact sport? Blind faith or what? Or are you happy to put girls and women at risk without any solid scientific backing; actually when the consensus is against it.

    Are the IAAF wrong? The Irfu are wrong to?

    I've been watching ladies football for 35years you bet I'll comment when an small group convince a committee to make health and safety decisions which go against the scientific consensus.

    When someone who plays it, a stands up for her sport as a woman, you label her with a derogatory name; where the fcuk do you think you have that right from?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,579 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    And here’s the big men charging in on their white horses to save the little women from decisions made by, checks notes , the women’s organisation.

    You can be as outraged as you want of course, but it looks like the women are well capable of making their own decisions without you telling them what to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭leath_dub


    LGFA - not GAA


    This is going to hurt them, numbers wise



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    If you knew anything about its history you would know the role played by men.

    And the role played by women in my GAA club.

    That's all you have throwing TERF around men in white horses.

    The woman in Donegal is managing just fine even with your slurs; what colour is your horse?

    So no answer to anything substantial on the science/risk in contact sports, and a mute acceptance of trans activism as an faith based ideology. Good lad



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    A thread from an eminent sports scientist on the matter.

    He has referenced 13 studies which contradict the LGFA position



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,579 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    “The role of men” huh? We can’t be letting the women go making their own decisions now or anything, can we?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    That's the best you can come up with eh?

    Strawmanning of the highest calibre and a sad attempt to derail the discussion.

    Pathetic tbh but not unexpected given your position on the topic. The same few people try the exact same tact on other threads concerning this subject, across the site. Such bad faith arguments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    So she spent 25 years with testosterone as a man? But its only the 5 as a woman that counts ? ---- ok.


    I have always spoken about the issues facing ladies/girls in their sports..... Look at the thread i started about the LGFA for 2-3 years ago ...

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    You have no reasonable argument to this , you cant even answer a simple question, because it would show you up for what you are.

    person with no interest in the topic, apart from the transgender angle. Your here to fight for a cause, with no facts to support your argument, and just jumping on a bandwagon .....

    So dont be throwing questions, if you arent able to answer questions put to you.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    If you are going to quote me, then at least quote me. It's not hard.

    That's all you have?

    If you had spent 5 mins on the LGFA website rather than typing than reply you might be a bit better informed.

    So another mute acceptance that the LGFA going against the scientific consensus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    No facts, no data, so now its time to overreach .. ?

    We are interested in the 'medical details' because thats the science behind sex that makes this a crazy decision...

    We say trans people shouldnt play against ladies/girls because of the science (as do the UCI , Fina, IRFU etc)

    But you say they should be allowed play because ........ ??? "They think they should be allowed , so they should"

    Your point are baseless, factless and are only coming from a Inclusivity activists point of view.

    You have no interest in the girls/ladies playing the sports, you just want Inclusivity , even when its not reasonable.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    This seems to be yourself and @Augme fall back post when you are beaten.

    comical stuff ........ 🤣

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    That's all they have unfortunately. They aren't used to people talking back and having an opinion they don't like. Usually they just screech loudest and throw a few labels around and they win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    But.....but.....but....... 🙄

    "the science is wrong" ....

    "NOOO , not our science, YOUR science......." ...

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,922 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It was a decision made by suits in offices. The LGFA never considered its members or supporters and it wasn’t put to a vote of its members, nor were supporters polled. Undemocratic.

    nobody is trying to save ‘little women’ 🙂 that’s your own description of them. People are trying to save a sport.

    Again…women LGFA members didn’t make their own decision. Decisions were made by the LGFA management / board.

    “Players over 16 must provide medical records showing their testosterone levels..”

    given that the only accurate and statistically ‘verifiable’ method of checking testosterone levels is via a doctor and other suitably qualified healthcare professionals performing a blood test… some more needless pressure on our health services…

    Now I did a search to see what the reaction was in the LGFA community at the most important level, the players….. as I thought, not going down well.

    Very succinctly put by an experienced stalwart of the sport, these are the people that we need to listen to. Not suits infected by the woke virus and totally vulnerable and exposing themselves to pressure from certain selfish niche corners of the sporting / political establishment….



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,707 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    and the 'dangers' of trans women sharing changing rooms with girls/ladies


    What dangers?

    Post or pre op bottom surgery as long as the Trans Woman has been on hormones for 24 or more months she is no more dangerous than any other Woman. The thing between the legs is not wanted and is virtually useless at this stage.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭JohnJoFitz


    "big men", "little women", "checks notes"

    Even by zealot standards, that is pathetic - You lot are worse than any Church.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    So the player in the pic, his 'thing' is useless ? And girls 17-18 yrs old are ok to change with her ?

    Come on now!

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,579 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Great to see how you've moved on from the emotive 'teen girls' to more accurate terminology, congrats.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭MattressRick


    Look at the photo above from last year and that club player that made national headlines. The physical build is obviously different and that transgender player is slight in terms of male players, but yet their thigh muscles and arms are bigger than the female player. This will cause bigger physical impacts and worse injuries if players accidentally clash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Thats it ??

    Your arguments are finished?

    At least you had the ball$ to stick around and argue, as @Augme ran for the hills , or his desk in the HQ of the LGFA ? 😜

    Theres no reasonable argument for the LGFA to allow this, without consulting the paying membership that will have to face them on the pitch.

    But do they have the ball$ to row back? Not in Ireland , it wont be allowed happen.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,707 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Yes they are.


    Do yourself a favour.


    Check out the latest series of Quantum Leap episode episide 12.

    It's called "Let Them Play"


    This does an excellent job of showing how it's not easy to be Trans and what a Trans person has to go through just ho be allowed do something she wants to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Its not easy to be any type of 'different' , but that shouldnt mean that the 'different' types of people should be allowed elbow/force their way into places that they should not be in!

    You are using a fictional tv as an example/reason for this to be allowed happen....... ??? Jesus H chr1st .........


    Men/ex men/transgendering men should not be playing with/against girls/ladies in girls/ladies sports.

    Its that simple.....

    You have nothing to support the argument that they should be, apart from 'inclusivity' or feeling sorry for them ? Nothing.

    Theres no reason for this to be allowed happen except for the Trans support/lobbyists demanding this HAS to happen and (sporting) organisations , in this case the LGFA, just caving in and say yes, as saying no to this would be a media free for all .......

    Its that simple.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    He's holding stuff back the good stuff for the third term.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,707 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Men/ex men/transgendering men should not be playing with/against girls/ladies in girls/ladies sports.


    Get your facts right at least.

    A Transgender Man is a Woman that is transitioning to be a Man.

    I think ye are all getting your knickers in a twist over very little. It's not like there is a flood of trans girls or trans Woman waiting to flood through the gates to the LGFA.

    Besides they said it was only for 15 and 16 year olds did they not?

    If a trans girl is on hormones or blockers before or at the start of puberty before it takes any effect she will not be in any significant way of build any different to all the other girls and with hormones will devolope as a teenage girl does.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    :D its bad when you have to latch onto a mistake in a post to win a point !!


    Boys enter puberty between

    "The average age for boys to start puberty is 12. But it's normal to begin at any point between the ages of 9 and 14."


    "During human puberty, there is an approximate 30-fold increase in testosterone production in boys."

    "Testosterone, which plays an important role in sexual development, is produced mainly by the testes in boys and in much smaller amounts by the ovaries in girls"


    "Besides they said it was only for 15 and 16 year olds did they not?If a trans girl is on hormones or blockers before or at the start of puberty before it takes any effect she will not be in any significant way of build any different to all the other girls and with hormones will devolope s a teenage girl does."

    Girls can enter puberty early

    "Puberty is when a child's body begins to develop and change as they become an adult.

    Signs of puberty include:

    • girls developing breasts and starting periods
    • boys developing a larger penis and testicles, a deeper voice and a more muscular appearance

    The average age for girls to start puberty is 11. But it's normal to begin at any point between the ages of 8 and 13."


    So by your reckoning a girl would start on hormones or blockers anywhere from 8-11 years of age?

    You think a child of that age would know they are a man trapped in a womans body ...??


    Get real .....

    Throw out as much straw as you like, its not right.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



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