Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish Times website no longer allowing comments

Options
1234579

Comments

  • Options
    #182
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289879#Comment_120289879

    I think you are wrong.

    For the reason that before the Irish Press newspaper shut down and when the Irish Examiner was more independent than it is now - and especially prior to the 1960s - there was a broader range of published views in print media.

    This is even true of the Irish Times itself, particularly before the editorship of Conor Brady, and it used to be considered a 'conspiracy theory' that Brady was taking the paper in a more politically liberal direction. How does that look now?

    Independent commenters try to fill the gap themselves with spontaneous comments on Facebook, newspaper web sites, site like boards and politics.ie, but get told that they lack legitimacy.

    Over time, this leads a lot of people to scoff at traditional outlets because of the tendentiousness of their claim to speak for the whole country or a majority of people.



  • Options
    #183
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289894#Comment_120289894

    I don't blame outlets for taking away comment sections that are a nightmare to moderate.

    However I'm not personally going to celebrate the elimination of independent views. It gives people notions that their opinion is the only opinion, that everything they don't like is part of an irrelevant fringe.

    Mainstream posters who adhere to all the acceptable views on things can themselves get very extreme, angry and off-balance if they perceive that other views don't deserve an airing. Scapegoat-fever against "ratlickers" and "Putinbots" has demonstrated that in spades



  • Options
    #184
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289895#Comment_120289895

    The flip side of that is the majority view, or less extreme views are disproportionately unrepresented.



  • Options
    #185
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,566 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289591#Comment_120289591

    No you are correct the two could exist in tandem.

    My post was to illustrate how useful the letters page is.

    They regularly publish criticism of the paper's content.



  • Options
    #186
    yagan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289910#Comment_120289910

    Perhaps you're right.

    But looking back on those times you have to acknowledge that most of what was printed was information, personal ads, mart prices, commodity and basic food prices, information relevant to everyday life. Opinion pages were a page along with the letters.

    Now it feels like outfits like the IT are only about opinion, as much a social media bubble as any conspiracy wormhole.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #187
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289928#Comment_120289928

    Its those "independent" views that have sawed the platform (branch) from under themselves by their extreme views and unreasonable behavior.

    If they have enough like-minded support it will be viable to support a sympathetic platform. No one's obliged to provide one for them.

    Theres a certain irony in implying opinions that are mainstream are not independently formed themselves.



  • Options
    #188
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,566 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289863#Comment_120289863

    Usually the number of letters represents the balance of contribution of letter writers.

    I doubt the readers of the IT are open to being told what to think.



  • Options
    #189
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,377 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122684#Comment_119122684

    In this case I don't think it is a conspiracy theory. It is the media trying to regain some control. Years ago newspapers were 'it'(pre internet) and the only counter argument was in the opinions pages of said papers. Which were closely controlled and vetted.

    You only have to look at you tube how it quietly removed the 'dislike' counts on videos. A PR control type of thing,

    In saying all that though, I find the comments section on online newspapers akin to 'pubtalk' a lot of 'mouths'.

    But as the OP said it gives a small snapshot into how the masses view a topic. And it allows you to read between the lines of the more extreme comments - mixed with the more moderate considered ones. The comments section was almost like a 'voxpop' of readers on the street. It does occasionally get silly though with commenters obviously trying to get a rise out of others - who take the bait.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #190
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289932#Comment_120289932

    There is very little danger of that happening, as the 'official' view tends to be blanketed on society in an overwhelming fashion. Murals of Tony Holohan, blue and yellow flags on every street in Dublin, every café with a 'Support Gay Marriage' sign in its window.

    Plus even on this specific issue named columnists have more status and greater standing than 'Billybob55'.



  • Options
    #191
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289955#Comment_120289955

    Well I did say earlier in the thread that people should think about starting their own blogs and newspapers rather than expect the IT to change which it won't.

    But I understand the dissatisfaction with 'consensus opinion' which I'm trying to articulate.

    Yes its true many people must spontaneously agree with the dominant view - I'm not implying they are totally artificial. Or that 'contrarianism' is always right or useful.

    I do detect a kind of artificiality though in implying that most people hold all the correct opinions - how could they possibly be true unless vast swathes of people are on autopilot? The exact line up of rejection of Irish nationalism in combination with embrace of Black and Ukrainian nationalism, adherence to feminism except where it contradicts x and y. Its such a particular brew made up of so many ingredients! And it just happens to be what every right-thinking person believes....



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #192
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,967 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289895#Comment_120289895

    See where @Brussels Sprout said that Daly-style lefists (I'm not a leftist myself) are "infesting" IT comment section. Extreme rhetoric and very nasty. But I have to 'dial back' my talk that the IT reflects officialdom? (Which it obviously does)

    I'm not the debate police. What's obvious to you is not obvious to others and smells of Conspiracy adjacent eyebrow waggling that somehow the Times are dictating mainstream thought. It's patent nonsense in a world where printed media has never been less relevant given social media effectively took over the position of being the origin of Discourse. If the Times is "official" then they're doing a terrible job of it. While I doubt their property porn sections are exactly endearing to the common reader.

    And TBH even if we indulge in the idea of the Times as official, curated opinion, fine I'll agree to disagree ... ... why do Comments section remain immune to that interrogation? Do you think there isn't influence, paid or otherwise, at play here in trying to shape opinion? Or invested parties who go out of their way to push a specific angle? Heck on Boards and this very forum there's at least one known Influencer. If anything Comments are even less trustworthy precisely because there's zero vetting. God knows what ChatGPT and the like will do for that; you don't even need to hire some chump in India anymore, if you wanna flood Comments sections with (say) anti western rhetoric. If anything it'll probably get worse.

    By way of example of the value of Comments: I see the journal running an article about "15 minute cities" which has inexplicably become a big conspiracy theory de Jour. The comments section is awash with theorists talking shíte. If Comments are the true barometer of mass opinion then clearly the majority think 15 Minute Cities are a conspiracy. It's an extreme example, but what possible value do comments bring here?



  • Options
    #193
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289968#Comment_120289968

    Well we are talking specifically about the comments section in media and Irish Times specifically.

    I've not seen what you're suggesting on every street or cafe in Dublin. So it's a ridiculous argument to begin with.



  • Options
    #194
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,967 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289968#Comment_120289968

    Ah. There it is. Frankly it's a little insulting to insinuate herd mentality on people for externalising support in something you don't. Sometimes most people support something and aren't being misled, or fooled, or the dumb masses. Maybe people just want to express their support for something as they see fit: this talk of "official" opinion a vulgar dismissal of that attempt to show solidarity.



  • Options
    #195
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289987#Comment_120289987

    I'm in complete agreement on all this.



  • Options
    #196
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290007#Comment_120290007

    DCC were putting up Ukrainian flags all over Dublin city centre before most people knew much about Ukraine, pre-empting thought.

    I do think it is media-led (and other institution-led) to an extent. Maybe I'm over-interpreting the media's role in this, I accept that's possible.

    As I said at the time, we went immediately from people being accused of being super-spreaders to being accused of being pro-Putin agents without catching our breath. There was one poster on boards calling for unvaccinated Canadian protestors to be shot dead and literally three days later he was accusing other posters of being pro-Russian traitors. This is considered a 'mainstream' sensible poster.

    Surely if you genuinely dislike vulgarity you must not be too impressed by this kind of thing?

    Where do these people get the confidence to denounce other people in the bitterest terms (albeit only pseudonymously)? I do think it is partly the feeling that every institution (including newspapers) are on the 'right side'. There is a lot of conformism in Irish society.



  • Options
    #197
    yagan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭yagan


    Oh come now growleaves, given freedom of choice the first thing people do is copy eachother.

    Newspapers once were vitally important for information, whereas now they've been superseded, first by radio, then by TV and now by the internet. Sports organisations have their websites now, societies have their own FB pages for announcements etc.... The only people who actively depend on the print media are those who never fully transitioned to digital.

    The IT is more like a viewspaper now, and I certainly haven't missed it since I let my sub lapse.



  • Options
    #198
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289928#Comment_120289928

    Yeah I'd rather the comments were still there too but I don't see what's in it for the IT in a business sense, when set against the ever-present danger than one of the mentalist regulars would post something libellous at 4 in the morning...



  • Options
    #199
    MerryCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭MerryCoffee


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058247654/irish-times-website-no-longer-allowing-comments

    MSM are not interested in our opinions... they have agenda to play.



  • Options
    #200
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    As I said at the time, we went immediately from people being accused of being super-spreaders to being accused of being pro-Putin agents without catching our breath.

    An alternative way at looking at the same things: The people dining out on contrarian Covid opinions suddenly latched on to contrarian Ukrainian opinions once the pandemic had subsided. They've got their contrarian climate change opinions locked & loaded, ready to go.



  • Options
    #201
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Why would the IT want to allow comments on a web site without control over scurrilous posters?

    They would need mods that are likely to need funding, and need some form of legal cover against blowback from the scurrilous posters.

    Just not worth the risk - and for what gain?

    Nah, just the letters page will do nicely. The green ink brigade are simple to spot.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #202
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,967 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290056#Comment_120290056

    DCC were putting up Ukrainian flags all over Dublin city centre before most people knew much about Ukraine, pre-empting thought.

    I do think it is media-led (and other institution-led) to an extent. Maybe I'm over-interpreting the media's role in this, I accept that's possible.

    You're going to have to at least throw out a little proof of this, because it just reads like Conspiracy to suggest DCC were somehow part of chicanery.

    Cos yes, I think you're over-interpreting why the first war on mainland Europe since the (last!) Balkans conflict might become major International news - and why the specifics of the war might engender resting & robust majority support for Ukraine. Again, it reads like an attempt to imply mindlessness on the part of the population that ohhh, we couldn't have arrived at these points of support without being "led". We've severely drifted from the Irish Times shuttering the chaos that are Comment Sections on their website to arrive at hmmmm'ing about Ukraine flags and shops with Marriage Equality stickers.



  • Options
    #203
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289987#Comment_120289987

    ‘If you live in Ranelagh .... ‘

    The IT is such a smug and sanctimonious rag it’s nauseous!

    How about if you are a young couple priced out of Dublin and living in Meath or Kildare and have to keep two cars on the road, no nice Luas out there!

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/2023/02/25/why-is-the-apparently-harmless-idea-of-15-minute-cities-exercising-conspiracy-theorists/



  • Options
    #204
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,967 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293135#Comment_120293135

    Did you actually read the article past that image's caption? It's obviously mocking the conspiracy theorists, as well as those comfy in the likes of raneleigh who already have a 15 Minute Neighbourhood... aka, a pre-existing community with shops & facilities; that the whole proposal is getting back to this idea that miles of Housing Estates are a bad idea for cultivating communities and neighbourhoods. Which, yeah. I think those of us who are living in sprawling estates can relate to (like anyone trying to find childcare among the sprawl)

    But isn’t it better to be safe than sorry? I don’t want to be microchipped or have to do paperwork!

    Stop. Almost anything can be made sound sinister if you add evil things that aren’t happening into the mix. You like custard, right?

    I do like custard.

    Well, what if the shadowy elites were going to force you to eat nothing but custard for the rest of your life, at gunpoint, because it was Karl Marx’s favourite food. How would you feel then?

    Debate the quality of humour, but I'd not have called it smug.



  • Options
    #205
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293135#Comment_120293135

    If you are living in Meath or Kildare the comment doesn't apply to you. The article is pointing out that peoples default these days, is indignant outrage, and conspiracy before they've understood the issue. Kinda hit the mark.



  • Options
    #206
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    A lot of people on this thread, mostly seem to want the comment section so they can disagree with everything, and express their distant for the IT itself. How about take a shortcut and just not read it. Low viewership would seem to get that point across far better than reading it.



  • Options
    #207
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292758#Comment_120292758

    Were you in Dublin city centre at the end of February 2022? Maybe you live down the country.

    The large flags went up almost immediately.

    DCC themselves probably have some record of it.

    We were a neutral country for the guts of a century previous to that so it is significant.

    Anyway I've said what I wanted to say. You don't agree, that's fine.



  • Options
    #208
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,967 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293283#Comment_120293283

    Yes I live in Dublin and its environs, so no; no real proof, beyond being surprised that erecting some flags in the white heat of a globally significant invasion - when it looked like Kyiv was about to fall in mere days - was somehow suspicious in a vague, hand-waving way that you seem to want to put down to social conditioning - without committing to actually saying "sheeple" 😀 And maybe that's not your angle, you don't believe it - but it's sure reading that way to me.

    Sometimes causes happen fast because a situation moves fast - which was more than could be said for the Russian tanks stuck on the highway at the time. Sometimes something captures the zeitgeist, the popular consciousness, whatever. IIRC all the major media publications were outraged at the war, so it's not like The Irish Times was somehow bucking the trend, or the prevailing mood. It doesn't have to have chicanery attached to it and seeking some where it doesn't exist? That way lies conspiracy theorising.



  • Options
    #209
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293283#Comment_120293283

    There a lots of media articles about it. Teks 2 secs to check on Google. Ireland's never been neutral, its' just been lip service for the most part. Be it using Shannon or sending condolences for Hitler.  I don't get why you think its relevant to the Irish Times Comments. Or why you have issue with Ukraine flags for that matter.



  • Options
    #210
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293348#Comment_120293348

    Lol @ "sheeple"

    We are a neutral country so putting up large flags of a country at war is, like I said, pre-empting the response to some extent.

    Has that ever happened in Ireland before?

    Lots of people knew nothing about Ukraine before that then suddenly blue and yellow mania was being pushed from top-down.

    And all 3-4 weeks after a two-year 'Emergency' diktat system issuing orders. Yeah no pressure anyone.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #211
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293368#Comment_120293368

    "Ireland's never been neutral"

    Oooooookayyyyy.

    The relevance is that media and institutions seemingly act in concert to direct what is acceptable opinion to some extent.

    Even a few stray comments by unreconstructed Marxists (all five of them) is seen as a potential threat to this.

    So the attitude to open debate becomes: its too much hassle, we don't need independent thinkers or independent anything



Advertisement