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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Look don't you realise that some people have no other argument, so resort to whataboutery at this stage.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Boggles sorry I did not look at who I responded to.

    Like I have previously stated I will not waste my time engaging with you considering your disingenuous posting style.

    I apologise for quoting your post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,138 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Denmark is mentioned over 10 times in this thread already according to the search function.*

    *interesting to note

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So basically you have been caught spreading the same old racist tropes and you are now taking the moral high ground. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,138 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    No, no, no, you don't understand! These people are different we shouldn't need to think of and treat them with humanity.

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭enricoh


    So 86% polled say there is a limit to the numbers we can take in, yet the government is still saying no limit. Talk about being out of tune with the electorate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Can't see them going there as Denmark (left wing government) have told the EU to get bent and are actively not taking refugees after seeing Sweden's amazing experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    The stats post looks like a contradiction you restict the numbers and you are not following International obligations of protection.


    Marcos is that you from p.ie ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,302 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But the first column is the key one. Almost 80% of people agreeing that Ireland has an obligation to take in refugees and asylum seekers.

    The anti-refugee guys are trying to sow all sorts of confusion and misinformation by implying that the public are turning against the idea of giving refugees shelter, when it is clear that they merely have concerns about current pressures on accommodation and infrastructure and whether we have the capacity to take in large numbers. 70% of people saying they want to see protests outside refugee centres banned is a striking finding - the protesters and those who organise the protests are clearly seen as troublemakers and being up to no good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    But clearly, from the 84% that want to see a cap on numbers introduced, people want to see controlled levels of immigration.

    I thought you disregarded polls last week?

    Anyway you are reading too much into it.

    The answer to the question.

    There is a limit to what Ireland can cope with. -sic

    Should be.

    Is yes, 100% agree, obviously.

    The answer to should Ukrainians be treated differently to other asylum seekers. -sic

    That should also be 100%. Obviously.

    If you ask remedial questions with the only option of yes/no answers the data that produces is going be absolutely useless.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No it's inherently racist.

    Same sort of feral scum that would have thrown bananas at black English footballers back in the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    So if someone moves from overseas to a country and gains citizenship it's racist to say that while they are now an Irish, UK, Australian etc citizen they have no history here.

    Really !?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Anyone.

    You said it's racist to say that which is outrageous



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Well no.

    The case in question were British citizens by birth, predominately of Pakistani heritage, Pakistan a country where Lizzy was actually queen of for a time.

    So when you refer to "History" what do you actually mean?

    British on paper maybe but not by history

    What's an adequate amount of this "history" before you are no longer considered "British on paper".

    Is Raheem Sterling only "British on paper maybe but not by history"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Well by history would be a few generations back. In 1951 the white population of Britain was 99.83%.

    That's only one generation. 70 odd years ago.

    Multicultural Britain is a new thing.

    .17% in 1951

    19% 70 years later.

    Unbelievable but thems the facts.

    Maybe in another 100 years or so. Depends on your own views

    Well Raheem Sterling was born in Jamaica so would you say he has British history?

    He can play for Jamaica or England and love either, neither or both. It's up to him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    No I didn't say that at all . And you know I didn't write that.

    You should re read my post.

    We are talking about British history and if someone has it.

    I see what you are up to. You tried some sort of set up with your Raheem Sterling question too. I'm not playing that game with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    This is what you said

    British on paper maybe but not by history

    In 1951 the white population of Britain was 99.83%.

    Maybe in another 100 years or so. Depends on your own views

    So what you are exactly saying is the only 100% British people in Britain are white?

    The likes of the Prime Minister is only paper British?

    Correct?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    No we were talking about having history in a country.

    A white Irish person could move to the UK. They wouldn't have history there. Maybe in 3 or 4 generations time.

    Or an Angolan could move to Nigeria. They wouldn't have a historical connection to Nigeria. Maybe their grandchildren or great grandchildren would.

    Im not playing your "what about this and what about that" game.

    And stop trying to put words in my mouth. What I have written is clear. The stats I used are historical UK census stats.

    Muted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,429 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    And stop trying to put words in my mouth

    I quoted your words.

    British on paper maybe but not by history

    In 1951 the white population of Britain was 99.83%.

    Maybe in another 100 years or so. Depends on your own views



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Boggles threadbanned



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,302 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    On the point of "bogus" asylum seekers, I would imagine most people in the country would have no issue at all with their claim being refused and them being asked to leave (otherwise the entire system would risk being undermined by spurious claims and applicants).

    Overall, I was very reassured by the poll. Irish people seem to be taking a nuanced approach to the issue and are seemingly not being swayed at all by any extremists. It's perfectly legitimate to say they are fully in favour of asylum seekers being accepted, but also that they have a lot of concerns over the accommodation issue and whether the system has the capacity to cope at present.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Why? Is the Ukrainian war more devastating than say the Syrian war? Why would you put Ukraine higher than any other war? Are you racist?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭bertieinexile


    Joe Costello, Labour Party Councillor and former TD, showed up at the Aughrim St protest last night. Came there to reach out to the protestors by letting them know non Ukrainians wouldn't be put in the Center.

    I believe the smart political move is to welcome any councillors - even ones who joined counter demos only a month ago like Joe did.

    It's all about normalisation and mainstreaming the protestors and their views. A councillor showing up at one of our protests is already something. Us reciprocating that would really put the wind up the NGOs and the government.

    However that smart political move collided with the anger and resentment towards politicians that the protestors feel and Joe was run out of it.

    A pity. Never mind. It's a learning process. Next time.


    BTW the Tweet with the video is courtesy of Ireland Against Fascism who do invaluable work in highlighting and promoting material on our side especially advertising upcoming protests. It's my go to place for info on what's happening.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    Boards.ie, Ngo ye're talkin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    I remember being absolutely horrified by the invasion at the start of the war and in a way I did not feel about Yemen.

    As far as I can tell we're supporting NATO? The USA are supplying Saudi with weapons and training to kill the Yemeni and our government doesn't protest that war.

    Is it because Ukraine is closer? I don't remember anything similar during the Yugoslavia wars.

    It could be it's because we are so in debt and reliant on US industry that the government just does whatever the EU/US wants us to do.

    I'm not saying we should not be taking Ukranian's but rather looking back on it I don't understand what the governments rationale was for the new precedent. Why is it different to Yugoslavia or any other country?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 124 ✭✭clytemnestra


    Agree, and I've said that before on these threads, what about the Yugoslavian wars of the '90s? People seem to have totally forgotten about them in their insistence that Ukraine is the worst conflict in Europe since WWII and that we have a massive obligation to refugees from there. Arguably, we had closer links to Yugoslavia; many Irish people visited Medjugorje for pilgrimages or went on sun holidays to Croatia before war broke out. Yet, we took in just a couple of thousand and they were mostly put up in temporary barracks and prefabs. Some stayed but most returned when the war was over. We have to ask ourselves what has fundamentally changed since then? The NGO behemoth? The power of the EU? Ireland being wealthier and a more attractive place for all kinds of migrants? Our politicians being weaker and less patriotic? The mind-rotting influence of social media with everyone addicted to the serotonin hits of likes and follows when they have the correct views on things? I don't know. But I do find the response to this war utterly surreal and disproportionate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭creeper1


    Three main reasons I believe.

    1. Ireland is richer now. In the 1980s Ireland wasn't rich and nobody wanted in. They can make good money now on the international protection racket and later when there is an amnesty in employment.

    2. Social media - the world knows how the west live and they want a piece of the action. Much social media is people showing off and migrants show off how (relatively) they are better off in the west to those on their feed back home. Also don't get me started on O'Gorman.

    3. Trafficking networks have evolved and NGOs are an integral part of that network. Care for Calais and the like. They also have marketing on tic toc or what have you.(Here I'm referring to the criminal traffickers)



This discussion has been closed.
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