Dairy Calves 2024

Bass Reeves · 22-02-2023 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273091#Comment_120273091

TBF it's not a reaction just to that. You seem to have a problem with dry stock farmers making a margin. I cost everything fairly fair. I neither over do fixed costs or underestimate variable.

I am making 300+/acre and retaining my SFP. I do not put in land charge or a labour charge.

Teagasc openly admitted that in dairy expansion they forgot about the calf. They made an assumption that dairy farmers would recover the cost of any inputs in a calf regardless of quality.

The problem has been that dairy farmers decided to exit completely rearing calves A substantial amount decided that they would produce genetically inferior calves and dump them.off the farm ad early as possible.

So where previously 30-50%+ of calves were retained until 6 months, some were even carried to slaughter. To where 150-200k extra calves were produced along with the half a million calves dairy farmers decided not to retain and it was supposed to have no effect on the market.

Just like dairy farmers make extra profit from milk beef farmers want to increase there margin as well.

As well you fail to understand is that costs have climbed in beef production as well. It's only in the last two years that beef prices have had a sustained increase and 2021 only reach the previous prices of the 2014-15 years.

Jjameson · 22-02-2023 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272034#Comment_120272034

And that’s what the man would need a calf at to have a profit if it’s only worth 800 at 15 months of age. That’s the point that’s going straight over your head.

Anto_Meath · 22-02-2023 12:46am

Or what I have been trying to tell people, you will buy a good FR calf for €80 or AAx at €200, bring them all to slaughter and they will leave €200 - €300 more than the calf at €5. But it would cost nearly the same to bring all to slaughter & maybe even more for €5 lad as they are poor converters of feed to beef. Lads see a FR bullock making a good price & they think all FR should make the same. There is a massive difference in the quality of FR male cattle available. Its only when you are killing them you realise it. A good one at the right money can turn a nice profit. Bad ones too dear will break you.

22-02-2023 1:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273318#Comment_120273318

Would there be a case for making lads in jail bucket raise these calves? Ireland might end up like Singapore where you could drop the wallet on the ground and come back and collect it tomorrow.

All joking aside, I think there needs to be accurate genomic merit available on calves to allow the buyer and seller to understand the value of the calf to avoid disappointment.

mr.stonewall · 22-02-2023 1:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273318#Comment_120273318

And the good Fr for the hook at 24 months get as rare as hen's teeth. In a batch of 20 average For bull calves, there will be about 2-3 that will turn a good margin. The same batch will have 6-10 that will just ....... Take forever due to genetics, is the kind way of putting it. The more crude way is break you in costs and time. Last year sample of slaughtering of 2020 spring Dairy bred stock started in late Feb and finished in mid Dec. 95% were killed from Feb to mid August. The last to go were the poor quality FRs in Dec.

The problem is the tale end in calf quality is just too big. The sooner we have DNA reg of calves at birth with a CBV value and the beef sub index the better. This will change the attitude on EBI to breeding.

alps · 22-02-2023 1:54am

If we introduce genetic testing for calves (for sale), who will believe the results.

Seems to me that only a very small % of farmers believe the genomic figures given to the sires.

straight · 22-02-2023 2:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273242#Comment_120273242

Oh right. So because I decided to keep a few of my own calves it means I have a problem with a beef man making money. 🤔🤔.

Not a teagasc man or a numbers man. Just interested in carrying on the way my father farmed before me with a bit of mixed farming for a while.

I am producing good calves and I will do fine out of them. Not sure what everyone is getting so excited about.

whelan2 · 22-02-2023 6:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273260#Comment_120273260

There are some posters that you learn not to engage with as they're always right. Even when they're wrong. They keep coming back with stuff thinking they're backing up what they're saying. Life's too short to deal with tools like that. Great men behind a keyboard....

Siamsa Sessions · 22-02-2023 8:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273427#Comment_120273427

Agree. CBV would be like EBI - the media will drool over it as if it’s the bible, some farmers will half use it, and the rest of us will just carry on. It may as well be GAA, LGBTQ, IRA, FAI, or any other acronym.

mr.stonewall · 22-02-2023 8:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273427#Comment_120273427

It will sort the wheat from the chaff. In the Suckler side of things, it is broken into 2 index's, replacement and terminal. Most farmers very and still are focused on the terminal traits, but the scheme was to encourage a rise in the replacement traits.

The greater the amount of samples taken the data's reliability will increase.

I don't believe every animal should be genotyped (a random sample of 25%of all calves born) but I do believe that DNA verification of Dam and Sire would have the same effect of backing up the data.

Let's take the issue of Aa calves coming from the dairy herd, quality is shocking, I have lots of first hand experience of it. Its very simple, it's bull/straw choice and the decline in cow LW. The Check list for picking an AA bull seems to be, 1. Is he black, 2 what's the lowest calving ease bull you have, 3 how short is his gestation. There is no denying that the choice above have a serious knock-on on calf quality

The focus on terminal traits of dairy beef calves has forgotten by many over the years of expansion

whelan2 · 22-02-2023 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273620#Comment_120273620

We breed Angus, agreed there are some shockingly bad Angus bulls out there. I know of one pedigree breeder selling stock that shouldn't be getting papers for them at all.

22-02-2023 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273604#Comment_120273604

Surely with a genomic assessment on a calf you can identify the sire and you already would know the dam. This information could be used to assess the potential of the calf based on the performance of related calves when they hit the factory in the past.

I think a metric like that would at least give the seller and buyer a better picture.

A person buying a calf is in for a long haul run of 20 to 30 plus months before they get a return.

whelan2 · 22-02-2023 8:48am

A genomic result takes the guts of 2 weeks, sire will be verified in a couple of days

22-02-2023 8:55am

If the accurate sire can be identified in a couples of days then that information would lead to a fairer result for both parties in the mart and needs to be available

patsy_mccabe · 22-02-2023 9:11am

I can't understand myself, why lads go mad for AA calves from the dairy herd. As far as i can see, they stay small little runts. A neighbour bought some a few years back and he sold them for €200 as weanlings in October These came straight from a farmer and got meal all summer. Never again, he said.

I've another neighbour that buys the best whitehead he can and gets on very well.

Siamsa Sessions · 22-02-2023 9:12am

We're all talking about what should be done, and if X was done it'd lead to Y, we have to do ABC, etc.

Nobody is disagreeing with the theory. But the reality on the ground is very different. The market for calves reflects that reality.

What are the chances of getting the majority of dairy farmers to start genomic testing all their calves? There is no point us talking a system that is essentially unimplementable.

mr.stonewall · 22-02-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273627#Comment_120273627

I can see it in stock at the moment. Approx 30-40 kg difference in DW at the moment. That's €160-220 difference in output.

I only singled out AA as it's the 2nd most popular after fresian. I'm well aware of othe example in other breeds.

Remember that better grading animals always weight more on the scales 90% of the time.

I do think that twins/multiples and calves to heifers should be noted on the blue card. This is both for dairy and sucklers

whelan2 · 22-02-2023 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273683#Comment_120273683

As said before you need to source thrm yourself off farm. See the cows they're from etc

patsy_mccabe · 22-02-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273689#Comment_120273689

SS just watched your video there earlier on dairy beef calf rearing costs. Very detailed. No arguing with it.

Just on the Genomic Testing - From what I see genomic testing only verifies the parents of the calf. The reliability of any additional data is very poor. They do seem to have cracked the calving figure alright but that seems to be from the huge amount of data they have. To give you an example of a pedigree heifer I have here that's genomically tested.

Beef Cow Calving Diff - 76% Reliability (Rel) genomic proof, 36% Rel non-genomic proof

Carcass weight - 47% Rel versus 32% Rel

Carcass Conformation - 47% Rel versus 31% Rel

jaymla627 · 22-02-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272077#Comment_120272077

Above diet is still 2 euro plus a day weanling heifer will eat circa 20kgs freshweight of silage a day...

Done the costings budget here for 2023 and it doesn't make great reading to be honest break-even milk price is circa 46 cent a litre base price all in and that's assuming no weather events like a drought/late spring/very wet summer I'd say for lowly borrowed farm with minimal rented ground/labour costs 36 cent a litre would be the run of it

Siamsa Sessions · 22-02-2023 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273929#Comment_120273929

Simple solutions are the best. No need for anything complicated.

Buying direct from a dairy farm takes a bit of organising but then so does anything worthwhile.

Green&Red · 22-02-2023 1:10pm

Why are ye arguing economics with a man who, by his own admission, hasn't taken a penny out of his farm in five years?

older by the day · 22-02-2023 2:50pm

Jayus there are some people on here as thick as shiit. Switch on your fffffing brains. Your like mongrels fighting over scraps.

Blaming each about calf prices, and the men in suits laughing at you.

Why not bring in DNA testing make more millionaires off the backs of farmers. Give away more of your money you fools

I see the AI companies have taken the 20 euro dairy beef subsidy.

Danzy · 22-02-2023 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273683#Comment_120273683

Angus is only going down hill as far as I can see. I wouldn't touch one again. Looking at the few bulls that one3 neighbour has for the coming year, next year will not see a turnaround in this townland.

22-02-2023 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275645#Comment_120275645

I saw polled Charlaois on done deal the other day. Something different.

Good Angus bulls are available but are harder to find these days.

22-02-2023 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274331#Comment_120274331

Maybe a partnership of sorts. The man that wants the calves rents the bulls to the dairy farmer and gives a dig out at calving to get the calves for free.

whelan2 · 22-02-2023 6:04pm

Had a lad looking for me to use certain limousin bulls on my cows, I was to calve them and keep them until 2 months for 200 euro. The bulls were all long gestation and I'd be left calving them.

mf240 · 22-02-2023 7:18pm

https://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/calves-and-milk-replacer-free/33413454

whelan2 · 22-02-2023 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276344#Comment_120276344

Ad is gone , was that my friend seamus?

Base price · 22-02-2023 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276344#Comment_120276344

That ad is no longer available - it must have been taken down. I presume the ad is selling X amount of calves for small money along with X bags of milk replacer thrown in.

Dairy Calves 2024

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